Riding Tips for Newbies :)

[Jamezo]

With regard to the above, is the idea with emergency mid-corner front brake usage to actively steer in at the same time as applying the brake lightly, to balance the 'stand-up' effect?

Sounds like it would be pushing the traction to the limit, but better than running wide....

[Sketchy_Racer]

In most situations, You cant stand the bike up mid turn. there is a reason for the corner, and that because you have to around it or you hit stuff,

I think ya learned that one the hard way unfortuantly (Jamezo!)

It's better to fall off trying to make the turn, than fall off by trying to stop mid turn, because as beyond said, 90% of the time you will make it!!

-RG

[terbang]

Paul you are a legend and good on you for starting this thread. And for us more experienced posters; lets keep in mind that its aimed at newbies on the road so lets put all the track riding technique (like tricky back brake stuff into corners and all) on the back burner for later.

My usual rant includes (and you will get sick of hearing me say it) as a general philosophy to riding you need to think about and continue to concentrate on three skills or skill areas.

(#1) Develop and maintain good handling skills.
Cornering, braking Etc..

(#2) Mental skills.
Read the road, look for obstacles/danger areas and know your road craft/rules.

Both of the above will be an absolute waste of time and useless to you if you don't get #3 sorted out..

(#3) Develop and maintain your self control skills. In other words get a grip on that thing between your ears that is easily allured by hormones (like testosterone) and other similar.

#3 is a a very important skill to develop on any bike..

Enjoy..

[beyond]

good stuff, keep it coming....

in regards to trail braking, I am more comfortable scrubbing off speed with the back brake as Im conscience of not overloading the front tyre too much. I know the popular advice is to use the front brake IF you have too in a bend, so today I tried using the front on a tightening blind unfamiliar bend (too hot) and the bike stood up and I exited wide, lucky the road was clear. I guess I used too much brake? needed to be more gentle on the lever? what do you more experienced guys think?...

Ok, trail braking is an area I did not want to get into for the sake of new riders but since it has been brought up, I will cover a few areas.

1. Firstly, do not even attempt trail braking until you know your bike, it's cornering capabilities and how well your rubber works in the dry and wet.
It's more of an advanced technique when you are pushing the envelope.

Warning: New riders do not go here till your have covered several thousand k's on your bike and know you have your straight line braking sorted out.

2. I push harder than I should on the road. It's something I am dealing with on a daily basis and each time I see a friend go down. In light of the above warnings, inspite of what many say about making sure your braking is over by the corner, you can actually brake quite hard into and through a corner, but Oh boy, you better know your limits. As the reality shows say: "don't try this at home"
By trail braking, front or rear brake into a corner you can go in hotter, faster and cornering speed will be higher and exit speed will give you an edge. Great on the track, real risky on the road unless you know your stuff.

N.B. get it worng and too much front brake will cause your front to wash out real fast. Too much rear and your arse will swing around to overtake your front.

So, at conrer entry, you may be using 60% of your tyre grip, which means you can use 40% of your braking capability as you enter the corner. At or near the apex you are using 100% of your tyre grip if you are pushing real hard, so at this stage you are right off the brakes. BUT, before the apex you might be at 90% traction limits which means you can still use 10% of your braking force before it all lets loose. As you clear the apex, your bike begins to stand up which means you go from 100% to 90% to 80% tyre traction limits which means you can turn up the wick, 10% 20% 30%. etc.

Stay on the brakes too long and you use up all available traction and you will go down. Open the throttle too early and you will surpass available traction from cornering and you will go down.

It takes an experienced rider to know their traction limits. It is different for every bike, every tyre, different weight riders etc and comes by experience. The tell tale twitch from the front or rear that your are approaching traction limits under braking or throttle: fail to recognise the early signs which come on quick and you are deep trouble.

I honestly recommend, that unless you have covered 5,000kms on your bike and better 10,000kms, don't even go here.

When trail braking, I personally hardly ever use the rear brake as the rear is too easy to lock up and cause a lowside. However, I ride a sports cruiser which is heavy, has a lesser degree of trail than a full on sports and a lot of front wheel weight bias under heavy braking. Therefore I use my front brake quite heavily into corners. On a full on sports bike, or a lighter machine, this can cause front wheel washout.

I am reluctant to pass on this technique to newbies so please heed my warning here. A lot can go wrong, very fast whe trail braking into corners.

Once again, when into a corner too hot, you can brake quite hard into the corner, but the braking severity MUST be reduced as your lean angle increase or grip will be severely compromised.

I hope this covers the question without putting at risk those who are at the early stages of learning.

[Nutter34]

-One good tip I read a long while back was to keep your arms bent at the elbow, anywhere between 60 to 90 degrees.... Trying to control the bars in the same plane as the forks with straight arms is really difficult. With the elbows being bent and RELAXED, the bars can move around a bit without affecting your body position too much.

-Another tip is not to grip the bars too tight. A light grip, sufficient for the throttle not to close, is more than enough...

-Learn to ride with a finger or two covering the front brakes and clutch. In an emergency you don't have to first reach for anything, since you are already covering them...

-That said, set the controls for your personal comfort. If you but a second hand bike, the lever angles could be too high or low ( more-so the foot brake), so it pays to adjust them so your wrists are straight with your hands resting on the levers when in you rcomfy position... It may take a bit of playing with since you may change your position depending on where/how you ride most...

-Not sure if it's been said... Look where you want to go... ALWAYS! If you're half way through a corner and get distracted, force yourself to look where you want to be. Target fixation is a bad thing and many experienced riders get caught out.

[beyond]

I know the popular advice is to use the front brake IF you have too in a bend, so today I tried using the front on a tightening blind unfamiliar bend (too hot) and the bike stood up and I exited wide, lucky the road was clear. I guess I used too much brake? needed to be more gentle on the lever? what do you more experienced guys think?...

Sorry, in answering the questions raised on trail braking I forgot to answer the obvious question in your response.

Rear brake use into a corner will cause the bike to drop in quicker which can be useful. Front brake usage into a corner will cause you to run wide.
In both cases, the effects are catered for by using counter steering to adjust the drop in or swing wide rates so that you accomplish your cornering with as smooth a line as possible.

i.e. When front brake trail braking you you will need to push the inside bar forward a little to compensate for the bike wanting to go wider and the reverse is true when you rear trail brake.

Yes, as has been mentioned, a tight grip will severely curtail the bikes ability to absorb road irregularities and maintain a good line. If you muscle the bike too hard between corners you can also set up head shake which can lead to a tank slapper (explained in other threads).

So, relax your grip on the bars, do keep your arms slightly bent so you do not lock your arms and therefore the bars and ensure all movements and controls into a corner are smooth. It takes very little to upset most modern sports bikes once into a corner. All movements, be it throttle control, braking of any sort, weight shifting, all need to be done gently and smoothly and the more your lean angle the smoother you need to be.

[terbang]

-

-Not sure if it's been said... Look where you want to go... ALWAYS! If you're half way through a corner and get distracted, force yourself to look where you want to be. Target fixation is a bad thing and many experienced riders get caught out.

This is a real good point and there is a lot to be said about it. Keeping your head level and looking into the corner to where you want the bike to go is important. It is a very common thing, especially in a bend that has an unexpected tightening, to end up looking toward the outside of the turn. This is often because you are going into some sort of survival mode and are doubting the bikes or your ability to turn. At this stage any backing off of the power will add to your woes. You generally end up going where you look. There allways comes a time when the bike just cant thighten the turn up any more whether it be tyre limits or clearance or whatever and if the corner tightens then you are in trouble. You have hit the limits, you have over cooked it..! However many people often overcook the corner in their minds only (the riders limit) and as a result start some life saving type of manouvre or tactic that sees them sailing off the edge on a bike that was very capable of doing better. This sort of undoing often starts with a glance in the wrong direction.
Know your bike's limits, know your own limits and ride below both of them.

[samwp]

Hi I have only been riding for a few months and really apreciate these kind of posts.

But as Jim and Squeak said trail braking is an advanced skill - I'm still learning what loss of traction feels like along with listening to and feeling what the engine is doing and trying to read the road surface and possible obsticles.

I've found I get into the least amount of trouble with the engine rolling with the bike rather than dragging or pushing the bike through the corner.

My two cents for riders who have just started is to read/learn heaps, take it easy, look after your bike and if possible go for a thrash on a dirt bike in a paddock.

[terbang]

if possible go for a thrash on a dirt bike in a paddock.

Some great advice there...

[Terminated]

Can someone help with a question of how far it's okay to lean a GN250, when going around a corner? Thanks! It's here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...325#post796325

Just read your link thread and offer the following for this thread here:

Here's how I approached the bike leaning and .....peg scraping:

Find an empty carpark put down a line of markers [cones - I used tennis balls cut in half] use 6 or 8 of them space them out evenly. Start with them fairly close and practise slow bike control weaving, then spread them further apart and increase your speed gradually each 2nd or 3rd run through this slalom exercise. [You are not trying to get the pegs down here but rather you will get a good feel for counter steering as you increase your speed and have the markers at a comfortable distance apart.]

Now pick up all the markers and just have two placed at a reasonable distance apart so you can practise a figure eight - it is durng this practise when you are feeling comfortable with the counter steering that you may encounter the wee touch down of a peg without even trying to lean over too much. Getting the practice as outlined in the previous paragraph and then moving to figure eight brings together several elements of balance, counter-steering, and looking where you want to go. Remember in the figure eight you will be constantly looking back over one shoulder and then the other.

Give it a go and let me know how you get on.

Regards
Heads Up and Enjoy

[ZeroIndex]

Hi I have only been riding for a few months and really apreciate these kind of posts.

But as Jim and Squeak said trail braking is an advanced skill - I'm still learning what loss of traction feels like along with listening to and feeling what the engine is doing and trying to read the road surface and possible obsticles.

I've found I get into the least amount of trouble with the engine rolling with the bike rather than dragging or pushing the bike through the corner.

My two cents for riders who have just started is to read/learn heaps, take it easy, look after your bike and if possible go for a thrash on a dirt bike in a paddock.

Some great advice there...

and what a thrash it was.. the lap at WINJA's started at 55.44 seconds, and then The Dover put down an amazing lap time of 48.37 seconds, which Sayam5 beat with a 45.11, which was the day's record.. GO THE STREET MAGIC!!

[XP@]

1. Never think you know it all. With biking, the more you learn
the more you realise how much more you have to learn. So be teachable.

Keep learning!!!

Learning by other peoples mistakes is less painful.

The more you learn the more fun you can have and you will be able to have fun for longer.

[Guzzigirl]

Fantastic to know that i am not alone with my theory - i am a very green newbie, - i very much go with the idea that nana speed is not all bad, some days i'm more confident than others but definitely ride with the attitude that i have a lot to learn and try to stay away from situations and stunts that cause a rectum clench.

[XP@]

...i very much go with the idea that nana speed is not all bad...

You will learn more riding "Nicely" at nana speed than you will giving it everything.

Concentrate at getting corners right at a pace you are happy with. Give it time and your "happy place" pace will gradually get quicker and quicker. The bonus is you are less likely to end up in the hedge.

And did I say Never stop learning?

[Kendog]

You will learn more riding "Nicely" at nana speed than you will giving it everything.

Concentrate at getting corners right at a pace you are happy with. Give it time and your "happy place" pace will gradually get quicker and quicker. The bonus is you are less likely to end up in the hedge.

And did I say Never stop learning?

I agree, there's something to be said for "Nanna riding".
I nanna constantly and often feel that I am not getting any better, but when I manage to keep up with other people that would normally have left me in the dust 6 months ago, I realise that I am probably improving.
I don't like to feel scared by my own riding, I personally don't like feeling out of control, or needing to change my undies after a ride, so nanna along I will. Improving at a steady pace without crashing your bike or loosing confidence is key to being a.........
Nanna Nanna Nanna.
Mrs KD.