Attention Southern KB venture riders.(and interested Northerners)

[Ruralman]

Great photos John - it looks like it would be a really good ride but the wet tracks would need to be dry for the Transalp's with our current tyres wouldn't they?
The steep track stuff looks Ok for the T/A and I guess the river would need to come down for all of us.
Do the tracks on that easier country dry out enough in the summer or is it always at risk of being wet up there? (if its wet then the DR's etc on knobbies would be the best bet)
Any idea what the total distance would be and more importantly, distance between fuel stops?
Do you reckon your son in law would loan you his DRZ for the day?

[Jantar]

I can assure you that once the snow has gone and summer hits, that this area does dry out. So much so that it becomes a fire risk and many farmers start to restrict access. Even horse shoes connecting with rock can cause enough of a spark to start fires by mid february.

[cooneyr]

I don't want to force my posts onto the forum unless people are interested, there was not a lot of interest for the ride I offered but I think that may have been just due to KiwiBiker's prior commitments and bad timing on my part.

Awsome looking country OR. Lived just north of the river when i was about the little mans age. Keen as mustard to get back down and have a look around. The timing was difficult for me but definatly interested in the Waitangi weekend idea.

Cheers
R

[oldrider]

I can assure you that once the snow has gone and summer hits, that this area does dry out. So much so that it becomes a fire risk and many farmers start to restrict access. Even horse shoes connecting with rock can cause enough of a spark to start fires by mid february.

Jantar is quite correct, this area is a land of extremes of all types of weather conditions, not a place to take lightly or to take unnecessary risks in.

You do so at your peril!

The distances that we travelled were recorded on Tamara's support truck, 105km from the Otematata garage.

My bike, 90km from Otematata garage.

Aaron, 38km (to the deep ford) from the Otematata station back yards where the trail bikes were unloaded and set up to ride the trail. (76km return)

So as you can see I very nearly made it on the TransAlp and probably could have battled my way through had it been absolutely necessary to do so.

I don't think I could have got through and returned back up through the snow and mud, even with big knobbly tyres I reckon I would have found it beyond me, I am just not strong enough anymore.

I was very impressed with my daughter Tamara's handling of the 4x4 support vehicle, it was just on the limit of it's capability and it was her first time in such conditions.(she done good)

Unfortunately we didn't get any pics of that part of the run.

Also bear in mind there is still a long way to go once you have successfully negotiated the ford through the Otematata river anyway! (and we were coming back)

See the pic below of the road ahead once over the ford.

The river ford is about just under 3/4 of the whole trip but I think the tracks are usually about the same standard as those we had already passed over not withstanding the current state of the snow plane.

There are some pretty awe inspiring scenes on the journey including the old gold workings behind Kyeburn and believe me there is a hell of a lot of rugged territory in there.

It is due to my experience out in this territory (103,000 acres just on one of the farms) that I wonder just what is the meaning of our biking terms, like what "is" a venture biker, when does he become an "off roader" or a "trail bike" rider.

I would love to have had an "accomplished" BMW 1200GS bike and rider with us just to see how they handle these sorts of conditions.(I would love a big bike like them)

When I watched the Long run home on TV I knew there were many of the sorts of conditions that they experienced right out here on our doorstep, just not so much of it.

After all a bog is a bog once you are up to your arse in it, it doesn't really matter where abouts in the world you are, you are literally "in the shit" and you have to get your self out of it!

I won't do a separate "ride report" on this event as it is mostly family stuff from here on, I was just worried that I might post too much info here and it might be the wrong forum for it.

Any one interested in this sort of ride will get enough intro material out of this thread to make up their mind if it is what they would like to do.

The trail bikes really knocked it off no trouble at all (well!) whether or not bigger venture bikes can hack it depends on how they are rigged and how experienced the riders are.

Experience is everything really and how else do you get that? Experience I suppose! Just do it! Cheers John.

1)The last quarter, beyond the horizon.A lot of the white in the background is not snow, it is old gold workings.
2)View, upstream from the Otematata river ford.
3)Another shot approaching the ford.
4)Note the KTM left laying in the grass at the ford??
5)The bridge at the Clear Stream above the junction with the Otematata river.
6)The triumphant girls crossing the last small ford on the way home.

[far queue]

Excellent work there OR, you did well, and great Pics too.

What a great country we live in for this sort of thing. Having just come back from a wee play around the Nelson area, and now looking at your pics, the difference in the landscape is quite marked. It's great to have such a variety of terrain to explore, and to be able to get access to it.

I feel the need to get so much more riding done, oh well, I guess the terrain has been there a while and isn't going anywhere in a hurry.

[Jantar]

It is due to my experience out in this territory (103,000 acres just on one of the farms) that I wonder just what is the meaning of our biking terms, like what "is" a venture biker, when does he become an "off roader" or a "trail bike" rider.

Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

[cooneyr]

Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

Since we are having this discussion - I recon a venture bike is a bike you would/can pretty well anyware with the least maintenance. There is no requirement to be the fast or most flashy mover. With my 4x4 background I dont care if it takes me all day to get somewhere and I dont care if I'm a nackered at the end the point is to enjoy the scenery and simply being there. A MX bike is good off road but not so good on road (long term maintenance due to road running is going to be a pain) and a road touring bikes are about the other end of the spectrum (maintenance due to off road running is a pain). This lead me to big bore 650 single (DR650) i.e. low maintenace, capable on and off road. In saying this there is never a perfect venture bike, each bike will be best suited to one part of the spectrum but still a venture bike if you want to use it to get somewhere. Think of the places the BMW R1200GS have been. They are by no means a lightweight or perfect off road but they can and will take you "there" if you ask nicely. To me a Transalp/F650SG(dakar),KTM Adventure,BMW GS,any low maintenance trail bike (i.e. not highly strung, change top end every 60 hours beast), plus bound to be others, are worthy contenders for the name venture bike.

I could just be talking shite given that I've been into bikes for about 2 years but I think the same philosphy applies to adventure 4x4s as well. No point in using a racing 4x4 to travel across the world and no point in using Merival Tractor to climb mountains without taking your time and being careful. I seriously think people tend to over equip their vehicles just so they dont get stuck and embarised. Who cares if you get stuck, its all part of the adventure as long as you are not being stupid i.e. crossing a swolen river instead of waiting a day. Completly
Cheers
R

[oldrider]

Its hard to put a clear definition on what particular category any bike falls into. There are many rides that are listed as adventure rides that can only be completed by trail or enduro bikes, and anyone a true "Venture" bike would be mad to attempt. There is a whole range of terrain from super highways through good sealed roads, back country sealed roads, gravel roads, dirt roads, 4WD tracks, dirt tracks to unmarked. I have always used Adventure riding to mean that the bike is capable of any type of road, with some (but limited) off road capability.

An adventure bike is effectively a road bike that is capable of continuing onwards when sports bikes or cruisers turn back. A trail bike will continue on when an adventure bike would turn back.

I think you have summed it up pretty well there Jantar.

I was never good enough to cut it on the race track but would loved to have given it go.

Today's attitudes to road laws and penalties ruin the best part of sports bike riding and have raised the stakes too high when you are testing "all" of the limits!

For me anyway, that leaves sports bikes out of my bike riding/ownership equation.

I don't believe I can cut it with the trail bikes anymore and now consider myself to be a road rider.

That means if it is a "road" I should be able to ride it, no matter what condition it is in, providing that it is passable.

I have been really mulling over whether there is such a thing as the "universal" bike. IE: A bike for all occasions.

I bought the TransAlp believing that it should be able to provide me with the widest range of applications to suit my needs and to it's credit it has done extremely well so far.

Any other brand of bike could do it but I have traditionally used Honda so I go with what I know also IMHO they are very reliable machines.

I think the bike is slightly more capable than I am so we are a good match as long as I don't get too careless or carried away with myself and try to cut it with the younger riders when they rip into it. (I have learned that the hard way!)

Getting the right combination of tyres and treads is proving critical, currently I have managed to find the right tyres for maximising road performance but they came up short on Sundays ride in the mud.

It was the lack of control of the front wheel that made me decide to park the bike on a rock on Sunday!

With only marginal rear traction I would have lost the front completely in the snow drifts, mud and slush that we encountered over the next 4 to 5km, after that it was a piece of wees again.

I am hoping that the Mitas E07's that I have on order will prove to be the right combination of tyres to cover the whole spectrum, if that is actually possible to achieve!

I was very impressed by a rider (whose name avoids me just now) on a KTM 990? who joined us on a ride through the Black Forest on the W/E of the March Hare rally.

I would loved to have had him and a comparative combination on a BMW1200GS with us on Sundays ride, it would have been an excellent opportunity to evaluate the two bikes in the conditions!

I only single out these two because generally they are promoted as the ultimate venture bikes, it would be great to have the whole selection available to evaluate their performance!

It is funny but no matter how logical you try to be, it still comes back to "bigger is better" or "more cubes" and "faster", lurking in the back of your mind, influencing your thinking and decision making processes.

I think I have enough bike to contend with at the moment but when I really think about it the "moments" that I have now are probably about all that I am going to get!

You tend to forget about that while you are having fun.

Conclusion: Yes I think I fit into the "venture biker" category all right but can it all be done with just one bike!. That is still the question? Cheers John.

[warewolf]

I tend to agree with the definition of adventure bikes being bikes that can ride any road. However, I would expand that and say, "It's the rider, not the bike." To whit, the RTW chap on the R1. Or closer to home, my Trophy did more dirt than my Tiger, simply because it was the bike we were on when we hit dirt.

You can adventure on anything; adventure describes the ride not the bike.

Of all types of riding, I reckon adventure riding is by far the biggest, widest compromise, which is why it is so many things to so many people. An adventure ride can encompass days of tarmac in foul weather, best suited to a leadwing. Then some 'canyon carving' as the 'murricans call it, sprotsbike-style. Maybe some fast open gravel road riding with lots of luggage and a pillion, perfect for an R-GS beemer. Finally, chuck in some snotty 4wd or single-track where you wish you had a light & nimble 2T enduro weapon, suitably tyred. All that on just one ride!

[Jantar]

Warewolf, you've got it exactly. Pavement + Dirt = Adventure.

In my younger days I did it all from road racing to long distance touring, endurance rides, trial rides, enduros, and Moto-x. Over the past few years I found that more and more I was taking my sports bike where other sports riders just wouldn't go, and when on tour i'd go looking for the gravel roads. That's why I changed to the VStrom.

[oldrider]

I tend to agree with the definition of adventure bikes being bikes that can ride any road. However, I would expand that and say, "It's the rider, not the bike." To whit, the RTW chap on the R1. Or closer to home, my Trophy did more dirt than my Tiger, simply because it was the bike we were on when we hit dirt.

You can adventure on anything; adventure describes the ride not the bike.

Of all types of riding, I reckon adventure riding is by far the biggest, widest compromise, which is why it is so many things to so many people. An adventure ride can encompass days of tarmac in foul weather, best suited to a leadwing. Then some 'canyon carving' as the 'murricans call it, sprotsbike-style. Maybe some fast open gravel road riding with lots of luggage and a pillion, perfect for an R-GS beemer. Finally, chuck in some snotty 4wd or single-track where you wish you had a light & nimble 2T enduro weapon, suitably tyred. All that on just one ride!

No disputing what you say but the number of times I get negative comments about my bike being the wrong bike for wherever I happen to be riding when off the tar seal, it got me to wondering if I really knew what sort of bike I actually owned myself!

Most of my riding time has been on my own, so I really don't know much about what is normal for the wider biking community.

That is what I like about KiwiBiker, I have never had such a great mix of opinions and experience etc available, literally at my finger tips! Cheers John.

[far queue]

The Ride

An adventure ride is what ever you want it to be. To some, it's riding the gravel roads, and to some it’s riding the gnarly tracks and river beds, in each case with at least some seal thrown in to get there and back. If you feel it’s an adventure for you then good on you for getting out there and doing it, and don’t worry what anyone else has to say about it.

My definition of an adventure ride for me, is to ride any road or track I’m capable of in the circumstances. That means seal, gravel, riverbed, 4wd track, single track. The circumstances for me to avoid are deep water crossings with big slimy rocks – I hate the things. The essence of an adventure ride for me is to get out there and explore the nooks and crannies of this varied and interesting country of ours.

The Bike

An adventure bike is whatever bike you want to take on the above rides, there’s no right or wrong bike. The capability of the rider has more to do with what bike will make it through. You could go as far as to say the less suitable the bike, the bigger the adventure will be.

I chose the DR650 because it’s capable of going everywhere I’m interested in going, and was great value for money. It’s probably more capable than I am, which is just fine by me. It lacks some of the comfort of the Transalp on the road, but it makes up for it with it’s capabilities off road. I’m certainly no top rider and will happily take my time and enjoy the ride and the views. I want to be taking the memories and the photos of the scenery home with me.

So ...
There will always differing opinions, don't worry about it, just get out there and have fun

[warewolf]

No disputing what you say but the number of times I get negative comments about my bike being the wrong bike for wherever I happen to be riding when off the tar seal, it got me to wondering if I really knew what sort of bike I actually owned myself!

That's kinda my point.

A big compromise is always going to be 'wrong' much of the time. That's the downside. The upside is that it is 'capable' much of the time.

Is the fuel tank half full, or half empty?

[Keith the Pom]

DAYUM! John, some of those off-road riding pics look more than a little 'challenging'. I've never done THAT sort of riding before, ever. S'pose you would call me a sealed road [only] ... poofter-type o' geezer.

Be gentle with me when I get down your way, the worsestest surface that I have ever negotiated was up in NI back in January (sse attachment) and now, upon reflection, that looks kinda tame by comparison to what I might be letting myself in for come January + March '07 (gulp!):

[miSTa]

A somewhat dainty way of holding camera there....