Reconditioned engines

[MisterD]

You just gotta get the wife to sit side-saddle - that evens up the handling

And how many times has Mrs Fairlie been persuaded onto the back of your scoot?

For sale, one helmet, size small, suit occasional female scooter passenger. Hardly used.

[Flatcap]

Welcome to Googie's scooter myths...what about bubble cars being left-over fighter canopies?

Innocenti were steel tube manufacturers, and Piaggio an aeroplane manufacturer....pity Supermarine didn't follow up the Spitfire with a scooter really...

...isn't that the Triumph Tigress...?

[Flatcap]

And how many times has Mrs Fairlie been persuaded onto the back of your scoot?

For sale, one helmet, size small, suit occasional female scooter passenger. Hardly used.

This Saturday past, in fact, and she enjoyed it....although shooting the gap was kept to a minimum....

Only happens when the weather is WARM

[texmo]

Welcome to Googie's scooter myths...what about bubble cars being left-over fighter canopies?

Innocenti were steel tube manufacturers, and Piaggio an aeroplane manufacturer....pity Supermarine didn't follow up the Spitfire with a scooter really...

they aint no myths gov..
Innocenti made scaffolding, they used this to make the frame of the lambretta, ever looked at a lambretta frame?
And vespas motors were starter motors for planes.
tis true look it up.

[The Wop]

But the fact remains that both companies were highly innovative engineering firms who managed to produce mass transportation in a severely depressed economy at a minimum of cost. They had a large influence in rebuilding the Italian economy post WWII using a rather simple idea.

Economics 101, but then again, that will only be understood by those who went to Uni....

[Flatcap]

And vespas motors were starter motors for planes.
tis true look it up.

Brilliant! You mean to say I ride a piece of a fighter/bomber to work each day?

Wucked

[MisterD]

they aint no myths gov..
Innocenti made scaffolding, they used this to make the frame of the lambretta, ever looked at a lambretta frame?

Innocenti were a highly advanced steel-tube manufacturer, making amongst other things (yes) scaffolding, gas pipes,the bodies for bombs, bullets etc etc.
It's a fallacy to say that Lammy frames are scaffolding tubes (for a start, just compare the diameters) what Innocenti did was find away to use their expertise to rebuild the company and the Italian economy post ww2.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a similar story with Piaggio - using their expertise rather than re-using leftover bits...after all how many starter motors have a gearbox?

[texmo]

So what did piaggio make before scooters? Go read a book.

Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

[The Wop]

The other thing that is being missed here is the fact that using bits originally intended for one thing, for something else, is a very clever way of achieving economies of scope (not to be confused with economies of scale). It is very clever for an engineering company to, say, use boiler tube for something else, thereby lowering the average cost of production. That is not dumb, in fact, far from it.

I recall reading somewhere that Piaggio were very involved in the war effort in manufacturing aircraft. They originally developed their scooter as a device to carry soldiers across the battle fields. The scooters and their soldier riders (apparently) were to be dropped from aircraft with special parachutes and upon landing, go quickly across land to attack their enemies.

The clever engineers, of course, seemed to miss the point that 8" wheels would catch in the smallest rut, but maybe there was more to these devices than was alluded to in the article.

It certainly is a very entertaining story, but possibly a little far fetched. Unlike Googie, er, Texmo, I don't tend to believe everything I hear.

[MisterD]

I recall reading somewhere that Piaggio were very involved in the war effort in manufacturing aircraft. They originally developed their scooter as a device to carry soldiers across the battle fields. The scooters and their soldier riders (apparently) were to be dropped from aircraft with special parachutes and upon landing, go quickly across land to attack their enemies.

The clever engineers, of course, seemed to miss the point that 8" wheels would catch in the smallest rut, but maybe there was more to these devices than was alluded to in the article.

They did indeed have a design for such a motorbike which was to be the basis of their post war "transport product"...except that the guy they got to do the design job hated traditional motorbikes so in came small wheels, step-through body, the enclosed engine to keep oil of your clothes and the handlebar gear change...et voila the scooter is born.

[MisterD]

Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

Er, so the frameworks of wooden poles that the medieval cathedral builders used were what exactly?

[The Wop]

Innocenit were the inventors of scaffolding.

Innocenti invented metal scaffolding poles among many, many, other things. They were a rather famous engineering company. The link between scaffolding and the scooter is tenuous at best.

Piaggio are also famous for a number of inventions, including the pressurised aircraft cabin and retracable landing gear.

Yes, Goog, we all know that Piaggio built aircraft and so what if the Vespa engine is based on a WWII aircraft engine starter motor? That is innovative dude! Seems unlikely though, as why on earth would you use one petrol engine to start another? You would still need yet another electric motor to start the smaller petrol engine. Unless the electric motors of the time did not develop enough torque to turn over the larger engine and they used the smaller one for that?

[texmo]

Trolling has never been so fun...

I think vespas and lambrettas are fucking awesome partly because of their history and where they were derived from.

[Ixion]

Use of a small petrol engine to start the (honking big) aircraft engines of the time was not uncommon. Problem with electric starters direct on the big engine (I think - I'm no aircraft expert so correction is welcomed) , was the battery not the starter. You need a jolly big battery for such a big starter. And huge batterys are not good things to have to cart around in a fighter aircraft.

You can of course use a battery cart, as some did. But when you have to get a squadron of planes airbourne real fast, that means having a squadrons worth of battery carts . And having them at the often improvised airfields of the day. So, a little petrol engine, with a little starter, and a little battery, and then clutch it into the big honker. And your aeroplane is independent , can start itself anywhere. And although such a engine might not be suitable for a scooter, the tooling which made it could no doubt be very easily adapted to make engines that were suitable.

[MisterD]

Use of a small petrol engine to start the (honking big) aircraft engines of the time was not uncommon.

A bit of searching later and as I thought, the original vespa engine is derived from an aircraft starter motor (Googie, this is not the same as actually being an aircraft starter motor).

Interestingly though, the motor was also used to start the plane's wheels rotating before landing thereby reducing the risk of tyre blowouts.

The single-sided front suspension is also derived from aircraft undercarrage design, and I think we can agree that there's no way you could bolt two vespa front ends under a plane and hope to land safely!