Criminal nuisance conviction for roading contractor after crash

[Funkyfly]

It's a good start. Perhaps contractors will be made to take more care in future.

Muto, this is what its about, making people take more care to do their job, doing this could help save lives.

[James Deuce]

Every accident you have is your own fault. There is ALWAYS something you could have done to avoid one.

Chris Parkin is an idiot for pushing that through the courts because this outcome will set a precedent and give an excuse to local government to legislate in many, many ways against motorcycles and motorcyclists.

Save your own life, and stop relying on central and local government to legislate the mechanism of your own redemption. Road works aren't about saving lives, its about national and local economies and trucks just don't care about a bit of pea gravel.

[Funkyfly]

simply been warning that if you take the "who can I blame?" attitude those that get blamed will soon form a defence on the recommendation of their lawyers and insurance companies.

Councils have that extra ability to be able to introduce bylaws as per the dog example.
.

If the contractors had DONE THEIR JOB and erected signs then the rider would have no case!

What kind of defence could they form? Ooh ooh heres a good one - maybe they could start DOING THEIR JOB!

Funk.....stop spouting on the opposite - its not the Council executive and team that's the problem its usually the elected Councillors and Mayor that push for policy change.

What are you on about? Councillors and the Mayor ARE PART OF the council (Local govt), thus included in my remark!

[merv]

Checking Wellington City Council bylaws this provision exists now - just imagine them putting it into effect when they feel like it in relation to unsafe use of motorcycles on roads under repair if that's what they felt like doing:

18.11 Provision for Resolutions
18.11.1 The Council may by resolution impose such prohibitions, restrictions, controls, or directions concerning the use by traffic or otherwise of any road or other area or building controlled by the Council, as are permitted by any relevant enactment.

18.11.2 Any resolution may:

Be made in respect of a specified class, type or description of vehicle, and may be revoked or amended by the Council.

Now I say this a bit tongue in cheek really because Chris is a WCC Councillor and he probably would argue against enactment in his city.

[FzerozeroT]

What planet are you living on? roads made of playground rubber?

Im trying to keep this thread in the REAL WORLD, not in the realms of fantasy.

It isn't the realm of fantasy, through the process of organic chemistry (cracking i think?) you could turn tyre rubber into a hard compound that would have enough flex to not tear apart like seal does, if NZ pioneered the process without telling anyone then we could be paid to take the worlds excess tyres, cover our own roads with the money, then release the "secret formula" and sell the poor saps back thier tyres at an inflated price. Muahaha

Seriously though, I'm taking your side on this issue as far as they have a job to do, so do it properly. But no need to be so angry (and childish) towards Motu (come on 'Muto', is that supposed to be an insult?) Motu is taking the same stance that he has when this subject has occoured in the past and I respect him for drawing an absoute line, he seems to follow kantian etics and good for him, I'm sure that he is great to work for and with because he sounds like he doesn't fuck around with namby pamby bullshit.

I'll drag up my crash which Motu will remember for me being a moaning bastard also. 300m visibility to the corner where i crashed and i was doing 30kph which would have been the signposted speed if there were signs, roadworkers have denied that there was a problem with the corner and so I'm taking it to small claims, i went back to see if they had swept the gravel away. Lo and behold, they have resealed the entire intersection in bitumen. well now, why would you seal an intersection a second time in 2 months? because they fucked up the first time!

I'm all for responsibility which is why I'm going to see the people responsible in court, maybe they will take more tax money off of me for roading, oh boo hoo, we pay a fraction of the roading bill compared to heavy transport. I would like to see billions spent on roading, and not straightening corners! good thick roads that last forever and a day before they need resealing.

rant over, that feels better

[Funkyfly]

Every accident you have is your own fault. There is ALWAYS something you could have done to avoid one.
.

Crap Jim, why dont you bowl down to the local cop shop and hospital and ask around.

excuse to local government to legislate in many, many ways against motorcycles and motorcyclists.
.

And in the REAL WORLD what might some of those be Jim?

Save your own life, and stop relying on central and local government to legislate the mechanism of your own redemption. Road works aren't about saving lives, its about national and local economies and trucks just don't care about a bit of pea gravel.

LOL, man why cant people READ! Contractors are required to put up signs - why would that be?

Because it can save accidents and lives!

Therefore road works SIGNS are about saving lives!

Go ask why a roading contractor has to put up a sign when they are working.

[FzerozeroT]

Jim i assume you've driven trucks before, and sure a patch of gravel doesn't hurt, but a shoulder can suck a unit right off the road, I've seen it happen! Roading contractors will have to get thier fingers out of thier asses because this isn't an issue that will cost big money, they are skimming on a few thousand dollars worth of road signs to make a little extra coin, you've seen the boards up, ra-de-ra roadworks $1.5 milion and they have about $2000 of road signs for it.

[FzerozeroT]

shit i'm feeling ranty,

How about if I go into a set of marked roadworks at 30kph, then decide to roost all the workers, should they take responsibility for standing in the way of my stones, they have a sign up which shows cars spraying stones at each other.

[Funkyfly]

Jim i assume you've driven trucks before, and sure a patch of gravel doesn't hurt, but a shoulder can suck a unit right off the road, I've seen it happen! Roading contractors will have to get thier fingers out of thier asses because this isn't an issue that will cost big money, they are skimming on a few thousand dollars worth of road signs to make a little extra coin, you've seen the boards up, ra-de-ra roadworks $1.5 milion and they have about $2000 of road signs for it.

Nice.

There are some pretty brazen statments in this thread, seems that some people like to make statements with no real idea like they were going out of fashion.

Cheers for keeping it real FZ.

[James Deuce]

Crap Jim, why dont you bowl down to the local cop shop and hospital and ask around.



And in the REAL WORLD what might some of those be Jim?



LOL, man why cant people READ! Contractors are required to put up signs - why would that be?

Because it can save accidents and lives!

Therefore road works SIGNS are about saving lives!

Go ask why a roading contractor has to put up a sign when they are working.

I've spent 3 months in and out of the Burwood spinal unit and Wellington Hospital orthopaedic unit with 4 separate compression fractures to C4, c5, T4, and T5 vertebrae. So before you go tossing childish and baseless insults around you might want to ask yourself if other haven;t had to ask hard questions of themselves.

I got run over (twice in the same accident) by someone slightly over the alcohol blood level. You know what? If I hadn't pissed around in Christchurch that afternoon I would have been in Picton earlier instead of having to rush. I wouldn't have had the accident. It happened because I didn't stick to a sensible timetable. Not because someone had a couple of wines at a mates place before he got on the ferry.

If you want a litigious model have a look at the US legal system. If someone doesn't wear a helmet, has a crash, and ends up brain damaged, it is entirely plausible that the Helmet manufacturers could be sued, and likely that they would lose the case.

You want that here? Keep taking everyone to court every time someone does something stupid, like not paying attention to the fact that there are hazards around road works, and the fact that it was signposted on the other side of the road.

You are obviously so entrenched in the abbrogation of personal responsibility to outside organisations that you are happy to continue the blameless victim model that cost 100s of millions of dollars in Govt. and personal insurance schemes.

[Funkyfly]

Checking Wellington City Council bylaws this provision exists now - just imagine them putting it into effect when they feel like it in relation to unsafe use of motorcycles on roads under repair if that's what they felt like doing:

18.11 Provision for Resolutions
18.11.1 The Council may by resolution impose such prohibitions, restrictions, controls, or directions concerning the use by traffic or otherwise of any road or other area or building controlled by the Council, as are permitted by any relevant enactment.

18.11.2 Any resolution may:

Be made in respect of a specified class, type or description of vehicle, and may be revoked or amended by the Council.

Now I say this a bit tongue in cheek really because Chris is a WCC Councillor and he probably would argue against enactment in his city.

Im talking about contractors doing their job merv, putting up signs like they are required to.

trying to get contractors to do their job (putting up signs) would reduce the need for councils to do anything stupid like implement such bylaws.

do you understand that?

Hence if we put pressure on councils to make sure their contractors are doing a proper job it will be good not only for the biker out there on the roads but also help curb any further court case's and resulting bylaws.

Man i hope you guys are starting to get this, its like teaching an old dog new tricks.

[Mongoose]

Oh dear Funkyfly - you haven't ridden many bikes and it shows...what are you going to do when a small child runs out in front of you and you bowl it over cause there wasn't a sign saying he was going to run out on the road? Go and kick his limp body cause he was such a silly little bugger - no,you'll blame his parents for their lack of control of their offspring,maybe you can sue them for damages.

Get out there on a bike and get some life experiances - Taranaki has some of the best riding roads we have,you can learn a lot out there...on the road.

Good try at fuzzying the edges of the debate Motu. In one leap you have taken this debate from known, man made dangers (ie grit on a corner,road ripped up etc) to a child running out infront of you. One has the opertunity, the expectation, to be signed the other not.
While I agree that there are too many numby pamby wrap them in cotton wool laws and rules I do not see how road signs fall into this.
My last posting asked, and yes I was expecting an answer from you, what do we have ANY road signs at all for?
Come to think of it, why do we have to have a ticket to ride/drive and why do we have any road rules?

[FzerozeroT]

I've spent 3 months in and out of the Burwood spinal unit and Wellington Hospital orthopaedic unit with 4 separate compression fractures to C4, c5, T4, and T5 vertebrae. So before you go tossing childish and baseless insults around you might want to ask yourself if other haven;t had to ask hard questions of themselves.

I got run over (twice in the same accident) by someone slightly over the alcohol blood level. You know what? If I hadn't pissed around in Christchurch that afternoon I would have been in Picton earlier instead of having to rush. I wouldn't have had the accident. It happened because I didn't stick to a sensible timetable. Not because someone had a couple of wines at a mates place before he got on the ferry.

If you want a litigious model have a look at the US legal system. If someone doesn't wear a helmet, has a crash, and ends up brain damaged, it is entirely plausible that the Helmet manufacturers could be sued, and likely that they would lose the case.

You want that here? Keep taking everyone to court every time someone does something stupid, like not paying attention to the fact that there are hazards around road works, and the fact that it was signposted on the other side of the road.

You are obviously so entrenched in the abbrogation of personal responsibility to outside organisations that you are happy to continue the blameless victim model that cost 100s of millions of dollars in Govt. and personal insurance schemes.

How can you blame yourself for that, I was at a bus stop at 9pm in chch and got mugged by 5 guys with a skateboard, when i woke up in hospital i thought, well it wasn't the smartest time to be at the bus stop, partial responsibility, but why is it not the smartest? why should anyone have to worry about 5 homies beating the crap out of them?

I thought the deal was no helmet no ACC?

[Funkyfly]

I got run over (twice in the same accident) by someone slightly over the alcohol blood level. You know what? If I hadn't pissed around in Christchurch that afternoon I would have been in Picton earlier instead of having to rush. I wouldn't have had the accident. It happened because I didn't stick to a sensible timetable. Not because someone had a couple of wines at a mates place before he got on the ferry.
.

If your rushing caused the accident then your to blame, i hope you stood up in court and told the judge how he shouldnt charge the other driver because it was all your fault? i hope YOU paid the other drivers fine?

If you want a litigious model have a look at the US legal system.....You want that here? Keep taking everyone to court every time someone does something stupid..

Read the other posts mate, this isnt about encouraging court action! go on - read the posts, its about using an EXISTING court case to try and prevent accidents by getting contractors do to their job, thus PREVENTING further court cases!

You are obviously so entrenched in the abbrogation of personal responsibility to outside organisations that you are happy to continue the blameless victim model that cost 100s of millions of dollars in Govt. and personal insurance schemes.

You have no idea mate, i take a lot personal responisbility.

Im awaiting you answer to the above questions. re. you causing an accident

[750Y]

well this morning i put the boy's bottle of milk in the microwave to heat for 83 seconds , gave the top a wash & popped out to the shed to get the bike out & start it up. i'm heading back into the house when i hear the mrs scream "who the f&*%$k does that!!!???". I walk in & see milk all over the floor & all up her nice clean black work clothes. turns out she has 'in her haste and sense of routine' heard the beeps come in & grabbed the bottle out spilling it everywhere. then she looks at me & i'm trying not to laugh as she repeats her question, i just say calmly 'you shoulda looked instead of rushing it'. anyway, it's all my fault lol.