Criminal nuisance conviction for roading contractor after crash

[Posh Tourer :P]

For sure dude, but like i said i have worked in local govt for over 7 years, i have seen numerous issues like this come to the fore, dog attacks for example, remember when that hit the headlines, i was there, i saw how my council and others reacted. What was done law and procedure wise to reduce the risks

But we arent talking about some need for further restrictions/laws/bylaws etc. They are already in place. We need ADHERANCE to these.

Put the damn sign up like you are suppose to do. DO YOUR JOB!

I dont think you guys understand how local govt works.

That is over reacting. As if council could ever restrict motorbike access on main roads due to roadworks. Sheesh.

So what about monitoring the signs to make sure they havent blown over or been stolen?

I have no doubt that councils could restrict access to most things.. What they often do is advise against it, and then you get no insurance cover if you crash while ignoring the warnings. What if you thought the warnings were ridiculous, and you crashed due to an unrelated factor (not the one directly warned about)....? Hows about that for an interesting idea.
Already happens on motorcycle rentals... no insurance if you ride on certain roads....

Dog control bylaws? ridiculous wording and overpolicing of hysterically induced new laws... Dogs now cant be taken off leash almost anywhere... I know most dogs I've looked after need regular exercise, and I'm not fit enough to give it to them while keeping them on a lead at all times....
I was a circular delivery boy, and forgot not to deliver to a house where the dog often jumped the fence if it saw you delivering.... complain? nah just dont deliver to the house. The owner was out quickly to make sure we were ok.. it was probably illegal to not keep it contained, and I for one was bloody scared at a large german shepherd rushing me, but thats life huh? live and learn... Now it would need to be contained and etc etc etc, not good enough to rely on the owner to look after it. After that incident I went and learnt how to deal with a dog... If I'd been bitten/attacked, I wouldnt have wanted to get the dog put down, but thats what woulda happened.... Natural reaction for a dog to attack, but I suppose we must sanitise the world and put out warning signs and introduce bylaws and get rid of such hazards as dogs....

Whatever happened to using your initiative and thinking about what you might encounter, and taking preventative steps? surely it'd be cheaper if everyone was a little more careful around dogs rather than legislating against them... the common sense bank is where that knowledge should be stored..... I know it's tough love, and think of the children and what if it was my children, etc etc, but there comes a line where I think I'm man enough to take responsibility for my actions and accept that there is an element of personal responsibility in every situation I encounter. And that includes where I take my children and what I let them do. I only hope my wife will think the same way.

[maybe]

Good to hear ...we do have to take responsibility as riders.....I think most of us do ride responsibly......if you stuck to being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead on rides like in the Wiarapa it would be real slow riding.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Um.. Posh, maybe you should have read the thread before commenting on it dude.

To quote Motu "it is your fault,in retrospect there is always something you could of done to prevent an accident"

Motu thinks EVERY accident could have been prevented, and that it is *always* YOUR fault. in other words the "Victim" can always be blamed

I know this is a longish thread but it might pay to read it ALL bro.

I did read that post and interpreted that, maybe wrongly, as mitigate an accident rather than prevent completely.

I agree it is *always* your fault. Doesnt mean that someone else cant have some fault too... Almost every second government cock-up has "several people at fault" for instance

[Funkyfly]

I did read that post and interpreted that, maybe wrongly, as mitigate an accident rather than prevent completely.

I agree it is *always* your fault. Doesnt mean that someone else cant have some fault too... Almost every second government cock-up has "several people at fault" for instance

Not sure how you "interupted" it wrong.

The question was asked "you telling us all, that NO matter what, you have a spill then it is intirely your own fault?"

Motu's answer "Mongoose,you are entirly correct,it is your fault,in retrospect there is always something you could of done to prevent an accident"

Anyway you made an error, big deal.

I was hoping this post would make riders sit up and take attention, ALOT of bike accidents are due to loose metal on the road. Here was some ammo (biker wins court case) to make councils realise how dangerous loose metal can be if road users arent given any warning.

Heck maybe the letters i sent to local govt here might be raised at the next meeting, maybe contractors are asked to be more active in placing warning signs, and just maybe it saves a bikers ass when he ride that bit of road next time.

Its called looking out for one another! Anything to help bikers stay upright.

Nothing to do with proving whos at fault, nothing to do with everyone having to accept that they cause every accident

Motu kicked that idea in the teeth claiming it was purely the riders fault and that no one is to blame but him.

I disagree, if a warning sign had been erected the rider "most likely" would have been able to slow his speed accordingly before hitting the gravel.

[Funkyfly]

So what about monitoring the signs to make sure they havent blown over or been stolen?.

Come on mate, common sense here. if its stolen then its stolen, at least they put it up in the first place.

What they often do is advise against it, and then you get no insurance cover if you crash while ignoring the warnings.

Wrong mate, my wife is the manager of an insurance company, you would be covered. Advise is nothing in court of law, it LAW that counts. Go ask your insurance company!

[Skyryder]

If the council or any othe contractor is out on the roads doing repairs then I expect a sighn up to inform me that the road is under repair etc and not untill the road is safe should the sighn be taken down. Having said that as a rider I take all the necessary precautions that I believe are necessary to get me from point A to point B safely. Providing I ride to the law I expect to arrive safely. I am not God. I can not see around corners, I can not predict a motorist in front of me signall right and as I pass on the left, changes direction, nor do I have any controll over numerous other dangerous situatiuons of other road users that we all know about, vehicles running red lights, failing to stop at compulsary stops etc.

And since this thread has got into the realm of speculation, let those of you who have posted that this was the riders fault, consider your position if the rider had been killed.

I'm with you on this Funkyfly and others. Motu and his lot sound like cadgers. Bloody riduculus. Some how, the erection of road signs warning of danger, have become some sort of conspiracy. Words fail.................

Skyryder

[Motu]

Oh dear Funkyfly - you haven't ridden many bikes and it shows...what are you going to do when a small child runs out in front of you and you bowl it over cause there wasn't a sign saying he was going to run out on the road? Go and kick his limp body cause he was such a silly little bugger - no,you'll blame his parents for their lack of control of their offspring,maybe you can sue them for damages.

Get out there on a bike and get some life experiances - Taranaki has some of the best riding roads we have,you can learn a lot out there...on the road.

[Lou Girardin]

Jeeeezzz,I give up on you fucktards,when are you ever going to realise that you,and only you are in control of your bike,if you can't be prepared for the unexpected and react to them you are destined for an early grave,or at least a litigation court as you try to hang some other poor prick for your fuck up.You hit a car that pulls out in front of you and you want to blame them,wake up,it's all in your control,buck up,or fuck up,then shut up.

I normally agree with you Motu, but have you thought about how slow you have to go to be able to stop in half the clear distance ahead on some of these blind bends. If you do, you're risking a Liberace from someone following you.
That was a cop-out by the Judge. It sounds fine on paper, but a bit unrealistic in the real world.
The problem would be solved if our right to sue for negligence was re-instated.

[Motu]

True - so,when you can't,be prepard....I think it's quite simple really,it's my life I'm protecting,and anyone else I might hit.

[Funkyfly]

Oh dear Funkyfly - you haven't ridden many bikes and it shows...

.

I been riding for about 2 years now and covered over 30,000 in that time.

While i have only ridden a dozen bikes and 2 years isnt a long time i dont see what on earth this has to do with the discussion at hand other than trying to discredit my reasonings - Nice try.

what are you going to do when a small child runs out in front of you and you bowl it over cause there wasn't a sign saying he was going to run out on the road?
.

Man you are sooo far off base its not even funny, its pathetic!

Theres no law saying you have to put up a sign when a kid runs out on the road!

For the 3rd time Motu - TRY AND REMEMBER IT THIS TIME -We are talking about trying to get people to DO THEIR JOB!

Contractors are to erect signs warning of anywork they are doing/have done.

When they dont do their job its makes the road more dangerous, esp for us riders.

"Kicking kids limp bodies" - your sad mate, really sad.

[QUOTE=Motu]

[Funkyfly]

True - so,when you can't,be prepard....I think it's quite simple really,it's my life I'm protecting,and anyone else I might hit.

Be prepared for what Motu?

Be prepared to avoid the accident?

But you cant "be prepared" for everything!

Tell me, your coming around a tight blind bend with a truck right up your rear (because your riding slow due to being "prepared") you cant pull over there is no room, now you need to lean over to go around this bend BUT HANG ON THERE COULD BE ICE OR SAND OR EVEN LOOSE METAL better "prepare"

you prepared well, lots of loose gravel - well done - BUT hang on while you were "prepared" for the gravel/ice/sand buy maybe slowing down further so you dont have to lean the bike over the truck has rear ended you because he didnt see the loose metal, in the 2 seconds you have time to react you tried to get away but being on loose gravel the rear skidded.

I think we ALL "prepare", but this doenst always protect us from accidents.

[Motu]

No,it's about blaming someone else when you made a mistake - it shouldn't matter if signs were out,if safety gaurds are on a machine,a pool is fenced or a thousand other so called safety measures are in place,it's about personal responsability and making sure you are actualy capable of doing what you embark on.

France is a country of cowards,they also have beautiful tree lined roads - the trees are being ripped out because people are dying when they crash cars and motorcycles into them - it's the tree's fault you see,I'm sure you understand that logic.NZ is turning into a country of cowards too scared to face up to who is at fault,blame someone else,make them pay....

To stop kids running into the street we will have 2 meter mesh fences erected along all our roads,to stop motorcycle riders crashing on road works all roads will be made of playground rubber,this will increase traction,a bonus.we must protect the public.

[Funkyfly]

No,it's about blaming someone else when you made a mistake -

.

Wrong, this is about trying to reduce the chance of bikers coming off

Like i posted before "Its called looking out for one another! Anything to help bikers stay upright. Nothing to do with proving whos at fault, nothing to do with everyone having to accept that they cause every accident"

To stop kids running into the street we will have 2 meter mesh fences erected along all our roads,to stop motorcycle riders crashing on road works all roads will be made of playground rubber,this will increase traction,a bonus.we must protect the public.

What planet are you living on? roads made of playground rubber?

Im trying to keep this thread in the REAL WORLD, not in the realms of fantasy.

[merv]

The problem would be solved if our right to sue for negligence was re-instated.

Oh dear the American way. Then the point I keep making will really bite in and the Councils and Contractors will protect their butts in the very fashion I have been suggesting. I haven't been trying to pass judgement on Chris or the Councils but have simply been warning that if you take the "who can I blame?" attitude those that get blamed will soon form a defence on the recommendation of their lawyers and insurance companies.

Councils have that extra ability to be able to introduce bylaws as per the dog example.

Do we really want anti-bike bylaws - if you accept no responsibility and push them that's what it will come to. The dog example started through lack of responsibility on the part of the dog (you could read bike eh!) owners.

Funk if you really are in a Council you will know this and stop spouting on the opposite - its not the Council executive and team that's the problem its usually the elected Councillors and Mayor that push for policy change to keep their voters happy and that means their ratepayers who don't want to face legal bills and other costs. Lump all the responsibility on the contractors and up go your maintenance costs because they simply pass that on.

[Motu]

Wrong, this is about trying to reduce the chance of bikers coming off

Like i posted before "Its called looking out for one another! Anything to help bikers stay upright. Nothing to do with proving whos at fault, nothing to do with everyone having to accept that they cause every accident"

It's called LOOKING OUT FOR YOURSELF,relying on someone else for your life is life threatening,take responsability for your own actions.