Criminal nuisance conviction for roading contractor after crash

[James Deuce]

"likely result"? this is pie in the sky stuff merv, your speculating it would go that far.

If there was a barrage of court cases like we all fear then yes i too would expect it to go further than we would like!

However, making councils aware of this ONE case, if they do anything at all that is, will more likely prompt them to simply "tell" the contractors to buck up and do there job.

Council - "Oh look, a local body were sued because a contractor didnt do their job correctly, hmm, what should we do? Spend the next 12 months introducing a new law banning motorbikes from going anywhere near roadworks? Oh hang on this same thing could happen to cars, and push bikes, to fully protect ourselves we would have to ban ALL vehicles! Maybe we should protect ourselves against our contactors. lets make sure they are doing their job as per the regulations already in place."

If the signs are up - no court cases!

Lets encourage em to help get those signs up like they are supposed to be.

You talking about a new law being introduced because someone fails to follow an existing law?

Comon guyz sheesh.

Noticed the large number of club (not just motorcycle ones) events, track days, and extreme sporting events that have been cancelled as a direct result of a cycling competitor deciding to ride on the wrong side of the road and getting killed, despite being told not to in a briefing, and then the organiser being convicted of exactly the same offence outlined here? There is also an increase in costs because of the requirement to purchase liability insurance for every aspect of an event.

It is no longer a reach. It would be easier from a politcal and cultural perspective to ban motorcycles than fix the issue of lazy contractors. You would, guaranteed, get more support for banning bikes than enforcing ISO9000 level standards on roading contractors.

[Funkyfly]

I think the point is defintely being missed.

Your not wrong, we have an oppertunity here to possibly save lives and everyone is too scared to say anything because they think the sky will fall in on bikers.

Wonder what the first negro lady to take a whites only bus was thinking about when she took her seat, was it of all the possible new laws that the white people might make to keep her off the bus next time? because that was certainlty the way the public opinon was back then.

she was thinking of her "people" who had human rights

Im thinking or our "people" out there on the roads, and the MANY that come off on unmarked roadworks who have the right to be warned of roadworks.

But everyone stay very still, maybe no one will notice us, after all whats a few bikers getting killed or maimed after all, a small price to pay for our great freedom.

Why dont some of you actually call the roading manager at your local council and see what he thinks.

[Funkyfly]

It is no longer a reach. It would be easier from a politcal and cultural perspective to ban motorcycles than fix the issue of lazy contractors. You would, guaranteed, get more support for banning bikes than enforcing ISO9000 level standards on roading contractors.

It would not be easier, look at what happened when they treid to put up rego for bikes to over 300, huge public outcry. and that was only over a bit of money!

Read the posts on how the govt backed down from its inital plan.

To try BANNING motorbikes would be a million times worse, and you couldnt ban motorbikes without banning pushbikes.

I would predict the public outcry would be HUGE!

You cant "guarantee" anything - so dont pretend you can

[James Deuce]

It would not be easier, look at what happened when they treid to put up rego for bikes to over 300, huge public outcry. and that was only over a bit of money!

Read the posts on how the govt backed down from its inital plan.

To try BANNING motorbikes would be a million times worse, and you couldnt ban motorbikes without banning pushbikes.

I would predict the public outcry would be HUGE!

You cant "guarantee" anything - so dont pretend you can

There was no huge public outcry. There was surreptitious prodding from well positioned motorcyclists and about 0.5% of motorcyclists bothered to respond to the call for public input to 4 proposals relating to changing ACC levies.

I can guarantee that public opinion is already negatively inclined in regard to motorcycles. They are also expensive for a Public Health system to support. I can guarantee that it would take a minimum of effort to ban motorcycles. Push bikes are a different story altogether. Even though they are more vulnerable in traffic than motorcycles, they are currently politically in vogue for being a "green" transport alternative. Motorcycles burn hydrocarbons, so not only do they place the biggest burden proportinally on the health system they pollute as well.

[Motu]

The potential is already out there for road closeur,look at any construction site - 2meter high mesh fences all round,this is not to stop people trespassing on the site,but to stop people trespassing on the site,injuring themselves and sueing the construction company.If the councils push the road construction companies into a corner they will just say right,this road is closed to all traffic while we do repairs - take a look at Fulton Hogan,this is almost what they are doing.Imagine coming off the Tuakau bridge and seeing SH22 closed because they are filling a couple of pot holes at Naike.

[Funkyfly]

There was no huge public outcry. There was surreptitious prodding from well positioned motorcyclists and about 0.5% of motorcyclists bothered to respond to the call for public input to 4 proposals relating to changing ACC levies.

I can guarantee that public opinion is already negatively inclined in regard to motorcycles. They are also expensive for a Public Health system to support. I can guarantee that it would take a minimum of effort to ban motorcycles. Push bikes are a different story altogether. Even though they are more vulnerable in traffic than motorcycles, they are currently politically in vogue for being a "green" transport alternative. Motorcycles burn hydrocarbons, so not only do they place the biggest burden proportinally on the health system they pollute as well.

It was on the news, hundreds of bikers showed up. i remeber seeing it, it was cool to see them all.

Now imagine if the govt tried to ban all bikes, i can guarantee a hell of a lot more that .5% of NZ's bikers would step up, not to mention all the liberals out there who would be dead against the govt banning bikes, not to mention the greens who seen bikers as a better form of transport than cars.

Have motorbikes been banned in america, this horrible place where there is no personal responsibility and law suits abound?

Hmm, hang on, not only are bikes still allowed but they still dont have to wear helmets!

Banning bikes! as if.

[Funkyfly]

The potential is already out there for road closeur,look at any construction site - 2meter high mesh fences all round,this is not to stop people trespassing on the site,but to stop people trespassing on the site,injuring themselves and sueing the construction company.If the councils push the road construction companies into a corner they will just say right,this road is closed to all traffic while we do repairs - take a look at Fulton Hogan,this is almost what they are doing.Imagine coming off the Tuakau bridge and seeing SH22 closed because they are filling a couple of pot holes at Naike.

There is also the potential that no one under the age of 25 can drive any form of vehicle.

There is the potential govt will ban any car over 2000cc's

lets take a look at what im trying to achieve again huh.......

"do what we can to help riders and minimize the chances of another court case!"

If we sit around with our fingers up our ass doing nothing, then there will be another courtcase, its just a matter of time.

Then there will be another.

Then another.

Oh no then your worst fears will come true and bikes will be banned?

Hang on, what if we encouraged councils to encourage contrators to put up these signs like they are supposed to.

If the signs are there, bikers/cagers cant take the contractors/council to court.

Can you follow that logic?

Its better to talk to councils now BEFORE more cases like this spring up that might force them to create silly laws. It would help prevent it going it to the relms of sillyness.

[James Deuce]

It was on the news, hundreds of bikers showed up. i remeber seeing it, it was cool to see them all.

Now imagine if the govt tried to ban all bikes, i can guarantee a hell of a lot more that .5% of NZ's bikers would step up, not to mention all the liberals out there who would be dead against the govt banning bikes, not to mention the greens who seen bikers as a better form of transport than cars.

Have motorbikes been banned in america, this horrible place where there is no personal responsibility and law suits abound?

Hmm, hang on, not only are bikes still allowed but they still dont have to wear helmets!

Banning bikes! as if.

They have a constitution in the US and we don't, so the argument doesn't wash. That constitution also allows US citizens to make time-wasting legal claims against manufacturers by refusing to take personal responsibility for stupidity. Which we end up paying for, as the cost of a lost law suit is spread over the costs of global motorcycle manufacturers. By far the biggest subset of "motorcyclists" in NZ are farmers, and they just don't care about the same issues that motorcycling road users do. I went on the protest ride and I also supported one of the 4 proposals in writing to the ACC. There were a tiny proportion of NZ motorcyclists on the protest ride, and the ACC recieved only double figures worth of submissions. There was not a "huge" public outcry at all.

The Greens do not support motorcycles as an alternative way of managing traffic congestion. No political party in NZ does.

[James Deuce]

There is also the potential that no one under the age of 25 can drive any form of vehicle.

That has effectively already happened. Insurance companies have made sure that full insurance is out of reach of most first car buyers, and the graduated license system has meant that quite a few under 25s I know can't be bothered finishing the process. Some don't consider motorcycles because the graduated license system for bikes is considered draconian by non-enthusiasts.

[Mongoose]

I think the point is defintely being missed.

Not realy, you say you had no input into the outcome but your myopic view has appeared to have blinded you to the fact that it was not ALL your fault

[Funkyfly]

They have a constitution in the US and we don't, so the argument doesn't wash. That constitution also allows US citizens to make time-wasting legal claims against manufacturers by refusing to take personal responsibility for stupidity.

The point of looking at America was that it if any govt was going to "protect" itself against lawsuits from bikers (as you argue the NZ govt will) then America would have done it already!

Have they banned bikes in france?
Motu - "France is a country of cowards,they also have beautiful tree lined roads - the trees are being ripped out because people are dying when they crash cars and motorcycles into them - it's the tree's fault you see"

I am currently awaiting a reply from the greens as i was under the impression they did support the use of bikes to reduce pollution and congestion.

[Funkyfly]

That has effectively already happened. Insurance companies have made sure that full insurance is out of reach of most first car buyers, and the graduated license system has meant that quite a few under 25s I know can't be bothered finishing the process. Some don't consider motorcycles because the graduated license system for bikes is considered draconian by non-enthusiasts.

Dont think so, My wife is the manager of a local insurance branch, and what you have stated is rubbish!

Not sure where you got this "information" from but its wrong or you have been miss informed.

under 25's have trouble getting insurance if the car is deemed too fast etc.

ANY under 25 with a good record could walk in an get insurance for a toyota corrolla.

The kids out there buying 250hp turbos might have trouble, and for good reason, bikes have to stick to 250cc on their learners and restricted.

[Funkyfly]

Not realy, you say you had no input into the outcome but your myopic view has appeared to have blinded you to the fact that it was not ALL your fault

Just let him beat himself up over it Mongoose.

You fully deserved all you got Jim, pay more attention to drunk old men with no lights on running stop signs at 9:15pm next time.

Oh and dont forget to "perpare for the unexpected" - not quite sure how that works but seems to be the in thing to do.

[James Deuce]

Dont think so, My wife is the manager of a local insurance branch, and what you have stated is rubbish!

Not sure where you got this "information" from but its wrong or you have been miss informed.

under 25's have trouble getting insurance if the car is deemed too fast etc.

ANY under 25 with a good record could walk in an get insurance for a toyota corrolla.

The kids out there buying 250hp turbos might have trouble, and for good reason, bikes have to stick to 250cc on their learners and restricted.

$1900 from AMI for 1 year comprehensive for a 1990 BMW 318ti worth $5000 is too much. That was the cheapest of all the mainstream insurance companies for a first time car buyer, no convictions of any type, and a law clerk who lives with her parents and garages the car to boot. It is not a fast car, not a turbo, and doesn't register on the stolen vehicle stats as a particular risk. Thankfully the National Auto Club will insure it for $900 per year, but that is still a significant percentage of the value of the vehicle.

Last week there was a television current affairs show that sent 5 relatively clean cut 20 somethings out to get insurance and I couldn;t belive the quotes coming back. They were all for substantially more than 50% of the value of the vehicle and excess ran to 1000s of dollars. As you said the ones asking for quotes for turbo vehicles were turned down.

A 22 year old I work with wanted to buy a 2.0L non-turbo Legacy wagon and AMI and State both turned him down without discussion. The NAC will do it, but he has a $4000 excess if the car gets stolen. It's listed for $6000.

[James Deuce]

Just let him beat himself up over it Mongoose.

You fully deserved all you got Jim, pay more attention to drunk old men with no lights on running stop signs at 9:15pm next time.

Oh and dont forget to "perpare for the unexpected" - not quite sure how that works but seems to be the in thing to do.

Precisely.