Criminal nuisance conviction for roading contractor after crash

[merv]

Hey another 800 or so posts and we'll catch up to the religious thread.

Zed you must have an opinion on this one from your good book surely?

[NordieBoy]

Makes it hard to believe "Every accident you have is your own fault." doesnt it.

Sorry to hear.

Managed to pick up another Nordie (the same colour) with the insurance money and bought back the wreck for $500.
$1000 later it was back on the road

"Every accident you have is your own fault."
Adrian Hayter's view (yachtsman/author solo around the world in the 1950's) was that there was no such thing as an accident and didn't like the idea of the ACC.

That makes a certain amount of sense and you can analyse an "incident" in hindsight and come up with any number of "if only"'s that would have prevented it.

All you can do is be as prepared and careful as the current and forseeable situation allows you to.

Unfortunately that damn quantum butterfly keeps flapping it's wings and things keep happening.

Ride carefully, ride safely and keep within your abilities.

If you're cruizing and you get out of your comfort zone then look at changing/training to improve those areas.

If you're looking to push hard on the public roads then make sure you're not going to be a danger to others.

Disclaimer...
If none of the above makes sense - well it did before I started typing...

[Funkyfly]

You say there is already a code for road signs, OK agreed, but the comparison is there isn't a law prohibiting use of motorcycles on gravel covered roads. but presto change of law and we have some more.


but the problem is enforcing it 100%, whether they are an ISO 9000:2000 certified business or not. That is not what will drive public opinion (read ratepayers) and therefore Council action.

As another point one to watch is the recent outcry against the deaths of the Asians in their 4x4 on the beach - prohibition or restrictions were mentioned. Watch this space if too many more incidents occur. As a 4x4 user I will be pissed off if we are limited in where we can go for the sake of the few. People like you were spouting on about the lack of speed signs etc like that was an issue. Yeah right, if the sand was a bit lumpy why weren't all people saying "damn shame the Asians drove too fast for the conditions and misjudged it". I am sure Motu can pick up on this one further.

So you don't think over-reaction by bureaucrats occurs, is that what you are saying - just make them manage their contractors perfectly 100% error free? In your association with the Council, whatever that has been for 7 years, that's what you believe huh?

I find it really hard to find a point in that post of yours Merv.

But anyway to answer your question, did i ever say or imply council can manage their contractors perfectly 100% error free? - No i didnt, i said "encourage council to encourage contractors" to do their job correctly, or to the best of their ability.

I said that a number of times now, im getting really tired of repeating myself.

[Funkyfly]

Hey another 800 or so posts and we'll catch up to the religious thread.

Zed you must have an opinion on this one from your good book surely?

Merv i thought we were getting close, but then i saw the number of views the religios thread has had -11,000!

I dont know how long i can keep going on this, i dont have much support.

[merv]

I find it really hard to find a point in that post of yours Merv.

But anyway to answer your question, did i ever say or imply council can manage their contractors perfectly 100% error free? - No i didnt, i said "encourage council to encourage contractors" to do their job correctly, or to the best of their ability.

I said that a number of times now, im getting really tired of repeating myself.

My point all the way through (embellished with examples) is that push any bureaucrats and they will react by covering their butts - and in the case of those with law making abilities they can make laws to deal with things they don't like.

You seemed to continually say the answer was to enforce the use of signage.

I continually responded by saying that it wasn't 100% possible, therefore any risk to Councils as an example might be countered by them (and it may seem illogical to you) imposing restrictions on us we didn't want.

In other words I didn't really agree with Chris taking the action he did because while he may have won the battle as they say he may not have won the war. We have no idea what the bureaucrats are thinking right now in Dannevirke do we, but I am sure they will be thinking "not our fault, how do we avoid likely litigation in future from these dangerous bikers?"

Simple huh!

The change to the law to counter boy racers is a great example. Just try and think of the wording they might use to counter bikers sliding on gravel - who knows what bureaucrats let loose can do. Remember someone said way back on this thread something like there is likely to be little sympathy for "those damn noisy irresponsible bikers that always travel too fast on our roads".

[Funkyfly]

My point all the way through (embellished with examples) is that push any bureaucrats and they will react by covering their butts".

Im not trying to "push" anyone, quite the opposite, encourage. If you can encourage people to DO THEIR JOB it could reduce the number of bikers having offs and the number of possible court cases brought against councils.

You seemed to continually say the answer was to enforce the use of signage.

I said council are the only one who can enforce the contractors to do their job correctly, contractors wont listen to rate payers, "enforce" was not in relation to making sure a road sign is there 100% of the time, that is not something you can enforce, as was posted before "what if someone steals the sign?"

again if they were encouraged to make SURE they erected the signs the chances of futher court cases would drop.

Council could do spot checks now and again, they check contracotrs work all the time, checking correct signage wouldnt be a big issue.

I continually responded by saying that it wasn't 100% possible, therefore any risk to Councils as an example might be countered by them (and it may seem illogical to you) imposing restrictions on us we didn't want.

mute point - see above.

[merv]

OK I wasn't talking about you pushing Councils, that refers to Chris and anyone else that takes action against them. i.e. push them (legally) and they will defend, especially if it happens too often for their coffers to bear.

[Funkyfly]

Hey another 800 or so posts and we'll catch up to the religious thread.

Zed you must have an opinion on this one from your good book surely?

And what do you have to do to get on the "most active" list for this site, sheesh my fingers are raw from this thread!

Must have typed over 60 posts in the last 3 days!

[merv]

And what do you have to do to get on the "most active" list for this site, sheesh my fingers are raw from this thread!

Must have typed over 60 posts in the last 3 days!

Counter must be slow to react then.

[Beemer]

Correct, the police would blame her also, she failed to follow the rules that were put in place to protect those on the road. In fact they would FINE her!

I think you lost most of us with your mysoginistic attitude here - "fine HER"? Geesh, what century do you live in? Why do women get cheaper insurance? Because they don't "nearly crash twice" and blame all their mistakes on others.

Yes, there should be signs at both ends of road works, but the bottom line is he came off because he couldn't react in time to the road conditions. The outcome could have been exactly the same if it had been a truck that had lost part of its load a few minutes earlier. There are no warning signs for dead possums, live sheep, harrier hawks, etc., all hazards you are highly likely to meet on this particular stretch of road, so it all comes back to the rider to ride within their capabilities.

Are you still working in local government? If so, you have WAY too much time on your hands. Get a bike (so you can tell us what it is and we can go out of our way to avoid riding near you) and get some riding in rather than wasting so much time slagging off everyone with an opinion that differs from yours.

And, for our benefit, please beg, steal or borrow a dictionary.

[Motu]

I dont know how long i can keep going on this, i dont have much support.

Have you wondered why?

[Funkyfly]

OK I wasn't talking about you pushing Councils, that refers to Chris and anyone else that takes action against them. i.e. push them (legally) and they will defend, especially if it happens too often for their coffers to bear.

I know all that.

I never condoned what Chris did, read my posts, but he did it, and it WILL (court cases) happen again if contractors continue to have a blase attitude regarding signs.

Now how are councils going to feel when they are facing 10 more court cases? Might that prompt them to introduce the banning of bikes like everyone fears?

As bikers wouldnt it be a good idea to try and decrease the chances of further court action against councils?

I was trying to raise contractor awareness by rallying support to talk to local councils about the dangers (both to human life and legally) if nothing were to change, and contractors didnt put more effort into making sure signs are placed.

This is called being proactive, get in there and try to fix the problem BEFORE it gets out of hand.


Do you understand that?

[Funkyfly]

[QUOTE=Beemer]

Correct, the police would blame her also, she failed to follow the rules that were put in place to protect those on the road. In fact they would FINE her!
I think you lost most of us with your mysoginistic attitude here - "fine HER"? Geesh, what century do you live in? Why do women get cheaper insurance? Because they don't "nearly crash twice" and blame all their mistakes on others.
:

Excuse me, dont get all anti male because i said the women involved in the accident would be fined. In no way did i imply woman caused accident, or were a greater risk on the road. For goodness sake. here, go off on this - Go burn a bra.

Yes, there should be signs at both ends of road works, but the bottom line is he came off because he couldn't react in time to the road conditions. The outcome could have been exactly the same if it had been a truck that had lost part of its load a few minutes earlier. There are no warning signs for dead possums, live sheep, harrier hawks, etc., all hazards you are highly likely to meet on this particular stretch of road, so it all comes back to the rider to ride within their capabilities.
:

So true, but you know what - pay attention now - there isnt any code stating signs should be erected for dead possums, live sheep hawks etc is there.

Why do you think road work signs are made? to sit on the deck on some truck? or be to erected thus giving road uses some warning of whats ahead.

Are you still working in local government? If so, you have WAY too much time on your hands. Get a bike (so you can tell us what it is and we can go out of our way to avoid riding near you) and get some riding in rather than wasting so much time slagging off everyone with an opinion that differs from yours.

And, for our benefit, please beg, steal or borrow a dictionary.

And if you want to slag me off thats fine, because i now you havent the slightest idea what i do and ifind it quite funny

Oh and if you read my profile you would know i have a bike, i ride a GSXR.

[Firefight]

And what do you have to do to get on the "most active" list for this site, sheesh my fingers are raw from this thread!

Must have typed over 60 posts in the last 3 days!

Silly me, I thought this was all because you cared about your topic ?


Firefight

[Funkyfly]

Have you wondered why?

Wondered why i cant keep going on?

Thats because i have to REPEATE myself every 10 posts!

Wonder my im not getting much support?

Prob a couple of reasons, i get up peoples nose, i speak my mind, i somehow manage to insult women ive only been riding a couple of years - therefore i couldnt possibly know anything, i havent ridden many bikes so again i dont rate.

Then again there have been a few supporters in spite of my obnoxious attitude and frightfully bad spelling, in fact counting em up looks 50-50.

But personally i dont think many take the time to read my posts and understand what im getting at.

that is - Doing nothing could end up far worse!