'Smacking ban' to be passed?

[kickingzebra]

Ain't going to be any spoiled children in my house, let that imply what it will.

Well and good if a frown and growl is sufficient, and I shall endeavour that it will, but children still frequently excercise their own free will, and if this free will interferes with their own or others safety/humanity then a whack now is a far better alternative than police cells, because the jails are full in 15 years time.

Asides from which isn't the abuse by parents who simply do not respect their childrens humanity, put them down, refuse to support them, but still do not spank them, a far worse and more insidious problem?

These are breeding the children who grow into adults without compunction.
Laws against smacking are not, repeat not, going to put a stop to chronic physical abuse. Who ever thought before a hot blooded killing, that murder is illegal, even when provoked??

Likewise, who ever thought stealing was a criminal offense first? No one. Self gratification is the first thought, and obviously, we already have laws a plenty for dealing with grievous harm to children, assaults on children etc.
Smacking and assault are not the same kettle of fish.

[MSTRS:Me]

I think its a good thing.... ... I just hope that this bill stops the "abusers" the ones that dont smack ..... they punch, hit, kick etc, taking out their aggression on someone who cant defend themselves, and not for disipline but because they feel like it.

A forlorn hope, I fear.
Whilst not everyone is a Christian, the 10 Commandments are all that is needed for a fine society. 2000+ years later, and when in all that time did everyone comply? What will be different this time?

[jrandom]

isn't the abuse by parents who simply do not respect their childrens humanity, put them down, refuse to support them, but still do not spank them, a far worse and more insidious problem?

Let's solve one problem at a time. Got any ideas on addressing that one?

... we already have laws a plenty for dealing with grievous harm to children, assaults on children etc.

The 'reasonable force' defense adds complexity to the prosecution of offenders. Take it away, and more of them will get their just deserts.

[judecatmad]

If you don't leave a mark and nobody sees you do it, how on earth are you going to get into trouble for smacking an under-two-year-old? They can't talk intelligibly enough to rat on you, and by the time they can, they will have forgotten it happened.

Yeah, that may be so but you'll always get some curtain-twitching, interfering f*cker who sees you disciplining your child by giving a tap to the back of the legs and reports you. We will end up with parents who are afraid to discpline their kids for fear of prison (or having huge legal bills, which, let's face it, most strapped-for-cash parents couldn't afford).

I agree with not smacking after a certain age in ideal circumstances, but if you need to smack your child to instil a sense of discipline then so be it.

There's nothing at all wrong with a slap to bring you in to line. My dad used to put me over his knee after making me wait for hours, knowing it was going to happen. That's wrong. My mum used to give me a slap around the back of the legs with her bare hand when I was out of line - damn it used to sting, but it was over and done with. No anger, no multiple slaps, just short and sharp and I knew I had crossed the line.

Having an anti-smacking law isn't going to stop the Lillybing or Kahui twins type of child abuse, or the baby-shaking we hear so much of these days. All it will do is put well-meaning parents in prison or a world of financial hurt.

The police are trying to reassure us that prosecution won't follow reports of minor slaps, no matter what the new law ends up saying...I won't believe it til I see it.

[jrandom]

A forlorn hope, I fear.

Stop with the forlorn already.

"All that is required for evil to triumph..."

[jrandom]

The police are trying to reassure us that prosecution won't follow reports of minor slaps, no matter what the new law ends up saying...I won't believe it til I see it.

Why the cynicism? What possible motive could the police have for pursuing frivolous prosecutions?

[MSTRS:Me]

Why the cynicism? What possible motive could the police have for pursuing frivolous prosecutions?

Could it be so that they are not seen to be anything but impartial upholders of the Law that will let the courts deal with it??

[Ixion]

The biggest mischief in this will come when relationships break up. Regardless of how private it may be, the open handed slap on the bum, ala Mr Fish to the sprats, is now a crime.

So when a relationship breaks up, and the partners get nasty to each other (as they do), one or other is going to throw in an accusation of criminal assault. And whilst a two year old may not be able to tattle, the same two year old two or three years later may still remember that "Mummy/Daddy hit me", when interrogated by those counsellors and psychologists who love to put words into childrens' mouths. Enter CYPS , exit any access to your children.

It will happen, nothing is more certain. Another weapon added to the divorce lawyers' amoury

[jrandom]

It will happen, nothing is more certain.

Of course. But if Family Court judges are stupid enough to let the kind of overtly manipulative situation you describe affect their judgement, then, well... I weep for society's lost sanity.

[jrandom]

Could it be so that they are not seen to be anything but impartial upholders of the Law that will let the courts deal with it??

They'll have to let a couple of test cases through to establish policy, but it should run smoothly after that. Bummer for the test cases, but then, life's a bitch. Whatcha gonna do?

[Fatjim]

Anybody who reports me for smacking my kids will get the shit beaten out of them!

[MisterD]

Yet again we're talking about a misguided piece of legislation which will criminalise the majority of normal law-abiders, whilst doing sweet fuck all to correct the problem it will allegedly solve......when will the hypocritical fuckwits in the Labour and Green Parties realise that they don't actually know better than everyone else?

Now that's a forlorn hope alright.


Edit: Just to clarify my position, I'm the father of an 8 month old and I'm not going to allow anyone who hasn't had kids at all or in the last 20 years to tell me how to raise mine. (Yes, that does include the Grandparents)

[MSTRS:Me]

Of course. But if Family Court judges are stupid enough to let the kind of overtly manipulative situation you describe affect their judgement, then, well... I weep for society's lost sanity.

They do now. Ixion is right - these sort of situations will just be exacerbated by accusations then becoming a criminal matter.

[MisterD]

It will happen, nothing is more certain. Another weapon added to the divorce lawyers' amoury

As we can see from the Headley case, it already does. Why accuse your ex of smacking, when you can accuse them of worse?

[outlawtorn]

hmmm, methinks NZ is headed the way of the UK, soon the kids will be so full of shit and cocky because they know you cannot lift a fucking finger, hey they are already headed that way, if kids get caught nowadays being naughty or up to shit they get a slap with a wet bus ticket and told not to do it again, fuck me that'll stop the bastards!!!!