Newby bit off too much?

[zooter]

TTR600 only has kickstart. I keep flooding it and it's a beatch after that to get started. I'm only 65kg so it's all about technique for me to get her firing before she floods. Any pointers?
How many strokes does each healthy kick produce? All going well she bursts into life on the third kick. If I don't quite get enough welly into it on that magic third she's all over. Seems to be something about getting enough mixture sucked in, and let out again with the decompression gizmo, with enough violence to recompress with enough spark.

[Vagabond]

Make sure you're on the compression stroke before using the decompression lever and then give it one good kick, also don't open the throttle wide as this will flood it quicker. (barely blip the throttle)
Repeat sequence to find compression stroke and try again!

[Motu]

Don't get flusterd,keep calm and your mind upon the task,doing all the steps in order.It's embarressing blocking off a hill being stalled,but don't let it get to you.....it'll be even more embaressing when you flood it.

[Mr. Peanut]

Embarrassing? Cool bike!

[NordieBoy]

Get to TDC.
Decomp to get just past TDC.
Annnndddd jump on the kickstart.
Stay away from the throttle!

If flooded then kick it over a few times with the decomp held in and full throttle.

[xwhatsit]

OK I'll spell it out what NordieBoy and others are saying, because you sound n00by like me. I too have a kickstart only bike, mine's a single (is yours as well? I can't tell from google image search), so it's difficult to start. Add to that mine has major starting issues, and I'm less than your 65kg as well.

If your decompression lever isn't automatically on when you use the kickstart, turn it on. Pull out the choke a tiny bit, it sounds like you're using too much if you're flooding it. You will learn eventually where the right place to leave the choke is (different bikes like different settings), but it sounds like you're using too much right now. Don't use any throttle at all, your carbs aren't set up right if you need any.

First just push the kickstart down gently until it becomes harder to push. This means you're on the compression stroke. Next, remembering not to touch the throttle, give it an almighty boot. I find standing on the other peg and really getting some air helps, as I'm lighter than you. Try to follow through with the kick right through, I find if I don't do this I don't get the extra revolutions the engine needs. If it doesn't start, be sure to get the engine on the compression stroke again before booting it again. This maximises the number of power strokes you're getting for each kick.

If you can smell fuel, stop immediately, as you're on your way to flooding it. Push your choke right in, you won't need it anymore. If flooding still remains a problem, try not using the choke at all. Most more modern carbed bikes have a little fuel pump connected to the throttle -- each time you open the throttle, the carb sprays some extra fuel in. I find that I can start the engine from cold without the choke by this method (you won't flood it either). Kick it a couple of times with no choke, then before the third kick, rev the throttle a couple of times, which will get the extra fuel you need to start. Then (let go of throttle again!), kick it and it should fire into life.

Good luck... there's an art to it... after pissing around with my broken bike, I can kickstart almost anything that others can't (have done so twice with other people's bikes who couldn't start them in the city), but I still have problems with mine (it's broken... I have to bump start mine quite often).

Ask Ixion if you still can't get things working, he's of the old school of big singles, which I gather are complete bitches to start using your leg.

[zooter]

Thanks for the insights so far.
I think some better understanding of how it works would help with the maintenance of Zen while kicking it in the guts.
The decompression is automatic. It seems to decompress at the top of the kick if I've nudged it up to compression stroke. Not too sure if I'm just not kicking hard enough or started from the wrong point but sometimes I get 3/4 through the kick and feel "here we go, this is gonna fire" and all of a sudden I hit a wall of compression which would need a Jona Lomu sized leg to push on through. I wonder if that is when it's flooded and I'm trying to compress liquid?

I suspect the decomp only works on the top part of the kick stroke to let the kickee get some inertia into the flywheel before the next compression stroke does the business. Starting hot is generally straightforward.

When it's acting up it won't go through TDC at the top of the kick without a fight.

[xwhatsit]

The `wall of compression'; I had that when I first reassembled my top end... turned out to be my decompresser cable was not adjusted quite right. I don't know if you have a workshop manual or anything but you may need to adjust the cable, mine has a pair of locknuts on it that you turn until the cable has about 10mm of free play. Of course, it may be the flooding thing, and when I adjusted the decompression cable that was just a red herring.

See the other thing, is that if you get the bike to TDC before you boot it, you've got it through that wall of compression first thing, so you've got plenty of movement from then on. Also as you say it decompresses anyway first thing, so that may help a lot.

Strictly speaking you don't need the decompresser anyway... when I was having starting issues I disconnected the cable to see if it made it any easier to start, which it didn't, and got me more tired (it only kicked back once though ), but they didn't have them in times gone by and I'm smaller than you and managed to get by with out it. Electric starters are for the weak, anyway ^_^.

[Henk]

Got the same bike. Easy to start hot or cold. Not so good lukewarm.
My techinique

On the for real kicks wind it over until you hear / feel the decompressor click over.

cold.
Half choke, no throttle, kick it over three times slowly then heave into it. Will usually fire up within the first three real kicks.

Hot
No choke no throttle, just kick it. First time every time

Decompressor cable broke last week. I had to find another way to get to work.

[F5 Dave]

Is this an off-road bike only? If you are dirt riding this then I can’t imagine a much more miserable noob bike. As a skinny 17yr old I had a TT500 & while it was fine on the road when you only had to start it once a trip in ideal conditions, my first real foray into the dirt was my last. (at least on that bike & put me off for years).

While the real men throw around enormous 4 strokes with aplomb I’m happy to leave them at it (they're all gay I hear). At 5”9 & 78kg I am thankful of a small light bike I can pick up & starts with a half hearted prod. My old kdx fitted the bill.

[Ruralman]

I don't suppose this bike was the one on Trademe form near Palmerston that sold recently??
Lots of good advise above. If you follow that you'll soon work out what works best for this particular bike. It sounded from one of your comments that maybe you weren't quite finding TDC.
Other than that, eat more pies!!!!!!! - and if you get sick of the bike and want to sell it send me a PM
Cheers

[DingDong]

So I take it you know how to get the piston to the top, remove the pussy decompression cable, put the bike on its stand, stand up on the pegs and give it all your wieght with a health grunt. (no gas)

Warning! if you bike tends to back-fire, slip your foot off the starter at the end of the stroke... or you could either eat knee cap or fly over the bars.

Decompression is for girls

[Motu]

No no no - don't ''slip you foot off the kickstarter''!!!! A kickstart lever on a kickback rebound is a leathal weapon.Keep your foot on it and absorb the recoil with your leg muscles.On the old Britsh singles I would keep my whole body weight on the lever and let it push me up,absorbing the force with my leg if possible.Don't resist,you haven't got a hope in hell of stoping it.And don't let it take a stab at you with your foot off the lever.

I'm with Dave,I can't imagine a worse bike to learn on.Sure you can learn how to start them at your house,halfway up a muddy gully is not the place to find it's too big a task.

[Mr. Peanut]

Sounds like fun I wanna try.

[Crisis management]

Don't get put off with this, I'm 65kg and have no problem starting most things. It's all technique not force. Follows Henks instructions and learn how it best likes to be treated but make sure it is in good tune and eveything is working and properly adjusted.

After all that I realise that both my bikes are electric start only.......