OK - wat the f@ck is going on??

[SPman]

Most of us don't actually care about the specific details of the individual incidents!

Its the attitudes and perspectives that can lead to these happening that was being discussed!

The thread was pulled for other reasons, second time around - reasons which some mods do not agree with!

[Motu]

I pity you, how did you get this far in life without KB's sage wisdom?

trust Spank Me and the rest of the Mods .

Hell - oh? What do you think this site is for? Posting up new roads to race on? I do hope it's about sage wisdom,everyone learning from each other.....the colective.Some give more advice than recieve,but even an old fart like me can learn from younger riders.....I just don't admit it.I'm sure anyone who has been on here for more than 2 weeks has picked up a few bits of sage wisdom along the way.....I think you may be in more need of the pity.

And I don't put my thought processes into the hands of spankMe and the mods,thank you very much - I can think my own thoughts without their help.

[yungatart]

Yes but if people don't like the censorship/moderation on KB then why not go to Sportbike to discuss - I doubt Quasi would block the posts.

Instead of bagging KB moderators, there is an alternative.

Not all of us ride sports bikes...

[Deano]

True mate, wasn't looking at it from that angle.

Sorry for my deliberate vagueness - I've been silent on several issues lately because I tend to get riled up easily.

[Deano]

Not all of us ride sports bikes...

There are some on KB that don't even have a bike. Doesn't stop them logging on and putting in their 2 cents.

[MSTRS:Me]

What was being talked about in those threads was (mostly) bullshit.

I don't think so. Thread was not about any of the accidents other than as a catalyst to make us think about how we (may) ride on the road. Quasi posted the hard facts of the one he had close involvement with ..and it was disturbing. No intent to offend or upset anyone. Only to ensure readers had the right reason for 'reflecting'. But no-one was/is forced to read or contribute.

[mstriumph]

Ah screw it.

What was being talked about in those threads was (mostly) bullshit.
There was very little detail about the accidents. Conjecture and supposition (at least until I gave up looking) was all that was there.
What good is that? None at all.

........ you missed the point

Now as SP Man says, sure an aircraft accident style investigation. Great go for it. But the (mostly) crap that was posted was very short on specifics and long on guess and opinion.

........ you missed the point - again

In the absence of a substantive report from which some learning can begin, why put the families through ANY unnecessary pain or discomfort?.

........ and again - with a twist

Publish the report (keep it accurate) and that will tell me all I need to know.

.... see below

We (well me anyway) are all quite capable of drawing our own conclusions thank you. I really don't need any thread on KB to tell me what to do or not do on the road. If the rest of you do, I pity you, how did you get this far in life without KB's sage wisdom?

.....- you may not have intended this the way it sounds, but it SOUNDS pretty arrogant

KB is a community where people, having the opportunity to learn from the experience of others, may manage to avoid some of the pitfalls they would otherwise have fallen into.

Personally i save MY pity for those, like you, who think they know it all already........

So stop being busy bodies,

when put alongside your "Publish the report (keep it accurate) and that will tell me all I need to know." speach it sounds as though YOU are the busy body wanting all the details --- from what i read, the rest of us don't because we have NO wish to cause any unnecessary upset

go take a chill pill and trust SpankMe and the rest of the Mods to do their job in the best interests of all involved, as they always have, and I am sure always will.

..... as you said "We ... are all quite capable of drawing our own conclusions thank you"

[WINJA]

Its Sad But Life Goes On , 2000 Or So Of Us On Kiwi Biker Are Still Alive , If My Mum Died I Wouldnt Go Looking For Mothers Day Presents So Why Log On Here If Its Gonna Upset You , Might Be Time For Some People To Log Off For Good

[Riff Raff]

I'm seeing first hand the upset that thread caused to the loved ones of those who've died. People are raving on about freedom of speech, but not stopping to think about the consequences of what they're saying. They're hurting the people who are hurting the most. And so you say, don't read the thread if it will upset you. Well would you stand back and let people slander your loved one that you've only just laid to rest? Would you?

People go on about learning from others mistakes. Sure, that's good. But if the fact that 3 of our KB members died on the roads is not enough to make you re-evaluate your riding, then nothing is.

If you want to discuss it then at least have the decency to wait until the accident investigation report is out so you have all the facts before you.

[Joni]

I could not and have not put it better myself hun...

[slowpoke]

Seems a golden opportunity has gone begging.

We can't change what has happened but we CAN change what is going to happen.

We can raise peoples awareness starting right NOW and possibly save someones life...or we could put it off, probably NEVER talk about it, and more than likely let more of our brightest young people be killed.

These events are an incredible waste, and to think people don't want to stop it happening RIGHT NOW is just....just....doing my head in.......

Righto, back to the cake recipes and how to mount an L-plate on my GN250. Gee, I feel heaps better already.....yeah right.

[Ixion]

Those suggesting that the matter is one of an academic insistence on 'freedom of speech", or of prurient curiosity do the posters in the original thread an injustice

In the lengthy (and robust) argument that took place behind the scenes about the original thread, I posted my reasons. For good or ill, that original thread will never see the light of day again. But , like Pilate, before sending for a bowl and water , I want my position to go on public record.

So here is a slightly edited version of it. I don't know how long it will remain (since the reaosns for deleting the original thread could also be applied to delting this post), so i have also posted it to my livejournal http://jedidiahstott.livejournal.com/

I think the thread should go back up . But not as a matter of free speech or satisfaction of curiosity

I have for a long time been concerned about the de facto KB attitude of sweeping under the carpet any suggestion that playing silly buggers on powerful motorcycles can lead to people getting hurt or killed. Whilst condoning the posts boasting of "another bin", treating crashing as a joke, boasting of 200kph+ runners from the police, the races on the public road that pass for KB group rides, etc etc.

I kept my mouth shut (mostly) because I thought maybe it was just me being a Nana, and those engaging in such antics perhaps possessed skill and capability beyond my comprehension.

Now, this tragedy has emboldened others, whom none could call nanaish or unskilled, to come forward and condemn irresponsible behaviour.When they have had the courage to speak out it would be craven and pusillanimous for me to stay silent. That is not to say or imply that the circumstances of those tragedies were irresponsible. I do not know the details of what happened there, I do not want to know, or need to know. I do know that three people, very experienced riders died. That should be a clarion call for ALL of us to take a good hard look at ourselves , and each other.

To censor this (and make no mistake about it, that is what is happening) and carry on with the head in sand philosophy is , I consider, grossly irresponsible , almost criminally irresponsible.

If the site was one only for experienced riders or racers, it might be argued (I think falsely) that riders are responsible for their own safety . But that is not the case (and even if it were I think the argument a false one). We have many young and novice riders. We have a responsibility to them and to reinforce their innate notion of personal invulnerability with a policy that ensures that the harsh realities of stupidity on the road are kept a close hidden secret is abrogating that responsibility.

I see no effective difference between the attitude of those who seek to maintain the pretence that the consequences of stupidity on the roads should never be mentioned , let alone condemned, and the parents of that drunken youth who declared that they would continue to supply him with alcohol, knowing he would drive drunk. In both cases those who should know better are condoning what should be condemned.

I think "it's not the right time and place" is just an evasion. Those resorting to it do so because they know full well there is never going to be a *right* time or place. It is an evasion, to justify maintaining the head in sand, sweep it under the carpet, keep it secret policy.

This is a discussion that KB NEEDS to have . I am sorry if it should be harsh for some. But the consequences of not having it are harsher still. Better hurt feelings than hurt bodies.

Sadly, that needful discussioon will never take place.

[Quasievil]

Yes but if people don't like the censorship/moderation on KB then why not go to Sportbike to discuss - I doubt Quasi would block the posts.

Instead of bagging KB moderators, there is an alternative.

I will be posting a letter on SB, not yet but soon. It will recount my day precisely, it will have pictures (aftermath style)and comments from others that where there, the intention is to serve a reminder to others and to save lives.
Daryl and Bruces Death wont be in vain, and as they are my dearest of mates I reckon they would appreciate it, however for now Im not ready nor is anyone else. But it will be posted and I will probably close the thread imediately so it doesnt get away on us.

In the meantime I think the closure of the thread in question is utter crap, nothing was on there that shouldnt be, the most debatable comment made was possibly by me, which refered to "the boys racing on the road" and why would that be a problem, everyone here knows they do, all the families know they did, everyone on the ride knows they where, thats a fact which was real is real and will stay real, nothing on KB will change that fact, not even the police report...............so as hard as it is to swallow , swallow it, learn from it and accept it, and talk about it and save the next guy or girl from killing themselves in the pursuit of speed on the public road

[mstriumph]

Those suggesting that the matter is one of an academic insistence on 'freedom of speech", or of prurient curiosity do the posters in the original thread an injustice................

thank you for that

it saddens me that, as you say, this is a "needful discussion that will never take place".

[Hitcher]

We're being way too sensitive, overly cautious and protective here and risk being unnecessarily influenced by opinions that probably have no basis in fact. For a site that has taken pride in full and frank discussion of issues - many of which also have no basis in fact - this is a sad day.