When will they learn?

[scumdog]

Bad choices in life - they paid the ultimate price.

Sad thing is: it's likely nobody told them how to make 'good' choices - and they probably had never been forced to face consequences of their actions too much throughout their sorry short lives.

[sinned]

Was driving well outside the conditions of his licence anyway, do you really see changing those conditions making any difference?

Would only make a difference to those who observe the rules don't you think?

The effective age of driving has reduced considerably. Here I show my age - back in the sixties few 15 - 17 year olds were driving with the freedom of today. I understand the driving age was set at 15 to allow young lads (yes predominately males and those on an apprenticeship) to drive a work vehicle which was typically a light truck or van. The boss kept a careful eye on how the vehicle was driven. Many parents didn't have a car or if they did any use by their offspring was tightly controlled. Those of us who had our own cars didn't have vehicles or bikes with the power that is available today. My first bike was a Francis Barnett 200. My first car a side value Morris Minor. 120kph was top end speed. While at school most bikes owned by my friends were 50 - 150cc. One of my friends had a Triumph 650 - that was considered the ultimate power machine. Few under 20 year olds had access to powerful cars or bikes. Now 15 - 17 year olds are driving high powered vehicles and with little parental or other controls. As few jobs require a drivers licence, I suggest lifting the age limit of driving a vehicle to 18.

[trumpy]

At 54 I look back on my youth and wonder how the hell I ever survived it (in fact some of my friends did not survive theirs). I got my drivers licence on my 15th birthday. Written test, 5 oral and a drive round the block. Piece of cake. At no stage was the issue of how much driving experience I had raised.
Owned a whole range of cars including an Isetta, couple of Morris Minors then Cortinas, Fiats etc, etc. I modified every single one for more performance but did little or nothing about improving safety........ like brakes. Ever tried stopping a Morrie Minor from 130ks on standard brakes. Took a while I can tell you! Was 27 before I owned my first unmodified car. At the end of the day physics is physics and to be honest these things were lethal, especially considering the way they were driven.
As I got older and started going to parties with the consequential consumption of fair amounts of alcohol, there was never any question of having designated drivers, if you could get the key in the ignition you drove it home. All this was "normal" and "accepted" behaviour for the time. When accidents did happen they were usually pretty ugly and more often than not resulted in death. Airbags, crumple zones, collapsable steering columns etc were not part of any car I ever owned as a youth. Hell, my first few cars didn't even have seatbelts.
And yes my mates and I did hangout with our cars, tried to impress the girls with our driving and made them as noisy as possible for as much attention as possible. Not a lot has changed.
It probably could be argued that technology has merely given us faster coffins, but I suspect that modern cars are safer and allow for greater chances of survival in an accident. I will ensure that any car my children own has at least airbags and ABS.
The real issue is not the cars themselves but how we teach our kids to drive them. Simply teaching kids to pass some tests is NOT enough.

[Motu]

Yes,the change has to come from within,not without.You can't tell a teenager what to do....but you can make him want to emulate someone he respects....

[Ixion]

You can show them , though, and let them draw their own conclusions.

When I learned to drive, there were no seatbelts (never heard of them); and cars had the old solid steering columns that speared back in a crash, with the steering box mounted on the front beam axle. Most didn't even have the dished steering wheels.

My father was connected with the motortrade. He took me round a few of the places where crashed cars had been towed. Made me look them over (on the pretext that he might buy them, so I didn't even realise I was being taught something).

Drew my attention to the collapsed and broken steering wheel. "That'll need replacing, wonder what broke it?". And the red smeary marks on the protuding steering column. "What's that mess. That'll be your job cleaning that up.What is it, d'y' think?".

Then let me go home and figure out for myself what the red smeary mess was, And how it got there and how the steering wheel was broken.

And what the mess was around the broken edges of the smashed windscreen.

And got the guys on the tow truck to tell us about the smash. Descriptive, it was.

I still vividly remember those smashed cars. I owe him a lot, probably my life, in more ways than one. Never told me to be careful. But he and all his mates (and some of them were well respected racers of the day) had nothing but absolute scorn for bunnies who crashed on the roads.The lesson was absorbed without me realising it.

EDIT: The marks were brown, not red. Dried.

[crack]

IXION:

Thanks for that, good post, you have (your Dad) taught me something:

I will try to emulate your DAD's WISDOM, with my kids.

Again Thanks:

[trumpy]

Fully concur Ixion. The attitude with which we approach our driving is absolutlely critical and it is up to us as parents to provide good role models for our children in this respect.
But this on its own is not enough. I have had 39 years of driving (generally quicker than I should) with only one minor fender bender (which was entirely my fault) and I would like to think that this was more than pure dumb luck. I drive around 70K to 80K a year supporting my business and I get to see some pretty interesting driving styles out there and am constantly amazed at how many drivers (including many who obviously think they are pretty good) seem to have no idea at all of the physics of driving a vehicle. I often shudder to think of what their car control (or lack of it) must be when things get tricky.
I have been first in to three fatals and early on the scene to several majors. Of the fatals, in all three cases it seemed to me to be a case of lack of car control. The majors appeared to be a mix of lack of control and in some cases really, really bad decision making. However so long as advanced driving skills are not taught (LTSA actively discourages this), then attitude alone will always be a case of putting icing on dog food and calling it cake.

[Beemer]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread. Since when has NOT expressing sympathy for someone who had NO respect at all for the law or other road users been a bad thing?

So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), give me a break - I was expressing MY opinion and it looks like I was in the majority here. Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

I repeat - I have NO sympathy at all for this tosser, his equally dumb mates or his future DPB-grabbing girlfriend. Natural selection at its best.

[Steam]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread.
So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

Here's another reddie for whining about getting red rep. Red's a pretty colour. You got heaps of green, it's not like it's going to put you in the... uh, red.

[Steam]

Oh and my 10c, I have no sympathy for the dudes in the news story either. If that makes me an asshole, so be it.

[Beemer]

Here's another reddie for whining about getting red rep. Red's a pretty colour. You got heaps of green, it's not like it's going to put you in the... uh, red.

Gee, how mature of you. I don't give a damn about rep, red or green, it just happens whether I like it or not, but I do get fed up getting red rep for expressing my own opinions.

Red rep is for tossers - which is why you've just earned some of your own.

[Steam]

which is why you've just earned some of your own.

Fair enough! Lol!

[James Deuce]

Red rep just means that someone disagrees with you. It isn't a weapon and adults should be allowed to disagree.

I prefer to disagree in public, but then I am disagreeable.

I've dished it out once I think and immediately thought, "what a coward - do your disagreeing in public!"

[sunhuntin]

I bet I wasn't the only one to get red rep for my post in this thread. Since when has NOT expressing sympathy for someone who had NO respect at all for the law or other road users been a bad thing?

So Shadmeister (funny how often those who dish out red rep never have the courage to have an opinion in the thread they find objectionable), give me a break - I was expressing MY opinion and it looks like I was in the majority here. Did you give everyone else red rep or was I singled out for the honour? Grow up, use red rep for things that deserve it, not for people expressing a genuinely held opinion and having the guts to put it down in writing.

I repeat - I have NO sympathy at all for this tosser, his equally dumb mates or his future DPB-grabbing girlfriend. Natural selection at its best.

i got it as well, beemer. and got called "harsh." harsh it may be, but ill say again, im glad. im glad they didnt kill anyone but themselves. im glad they wont be living off our taxes. im glad the roads are safer for everyone without them.
what i hate, is once again, its the cops fault. and now they are blaming computer games. again its "such a nice boy. hes innocent cos he was on p/drunk/stoned/getting jacked off by his mate." whatever. they ran. they turned their lights out. they crashed. they died. good fuckin riddence.
im only 21, but looking at "kids" like these, i feel about 50. the generation gap is huge here...these ones do things id never have dreamed of doing...only a 6/7 year difference between me and the driver...feels more like 60.
whatever. ive had enough of the dropkick "children" around today. bring back everything that made my parents good, respectful people. hardworking and protective of their lot.

[fatnold]

At the end of it all you can't feel sorry for the pricks who died, just the poor bastards left to clear up the mess and the families who will mourn their deaths.