Graeme William Burton in custody

[jrandom]

I've seen a few olympic pistol shooting competions from time to time and I'm pretty damn sure there has ever been one held over a distance of 200 metres.

50 meters is the longest distance for Olympic target pistol competition.

[Swoop]

I think Mr Swoop has no idea of the reality of law enforcement scenario shootings.

Unfortunately The Swoop has a reasonable concept of the goings on...

As Spudly said, they are nearly all impulsive and at extremely close range. And I don't think any Police force is going to issue their cops with accurized, scope equipped handguns to shoot at 200 metres.

Correct on these 3 points. The training distance and the common incident distance is very close range, as you have stated; however the capability of a standard issue handgun is very decent out to 25m and can be pushed by good folks out to 50m (not that anyone would WANT to do this, BUT if it is the only option...). Preferably the Bushmaster would have been readily available for anything greater than "close".
Our sages have suggested the shotgun for those "intermediate ranges", but these have their limitations if there is more than just the target in their line of fire and shot pattern area.

Now, the 200m issue. SOME handguns are capable of great range. I state this to emphasise that the handgun is not limited to just a short-range. I do not endorse people trying to do this, especially police officers. However there still is the ingrained, institutionalised belief that something is only good for one thing, and this is what I am trying to convey here, that people need to think outside of the square and learn more about their "tools".
It's a bit like bikers who ride differing types of bike and slag other types off even though they do not appreciate the others capabilities.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you shot any flavour of Glock?

At least a couple of months back now.
We did have one blow up some time back. That was the good thing with the polymer frame, it protected the shooters hand from the blast. Wooden grips wouldn't have fared as well.

Target shooting from your preferred comfortable stanch as vastly diffent than being suddenly placed in a position full of variables that you have no control over and where there is an offender wanting to shoot back at you.

Go and do some IPSC shooting then. Good practice. Have you heard of the "Service match"? It is an official NRA match competition based on police distances and stances. You start on the 25 yard line and move closer through different courses of fire. Find out about it, you will learn quite a lot.

At 25 metres its almost a "fill the air with lead and let god sort it out" situation.

A good reason for you to stay with your mindset that you can only shoot from 3-5metres then... Go and practice and stay away from the general public please! Ask your supervisor for more training time or join a pistol club and train more.

[spudchucka]

A good reason for you to stay with your mindset that you can only shoot from 3-5metres then... Go and practice and stay away from the general public please! Ask your supervisor for more training time or join a pistol club and train more.

I can shoot fine from many distances, not juust 3 - 5. You sound like such a blow hard that this really isn't worth pusuing.

However, please explain to me how at 200 metres or even at 50 metres a police officer in a hostile situation can effectively use his or her most effective tool, their ability to speak and reason with an offender.

If it was just about turning up to jobs and popping people off we'd be armed with very differen't weapons.

We are still required to attempt to resolve incidents before we just start shooting, you seem to be completely overlooking all practical everyday factors involved in policing. None of the shit you have spouted has any relevance to policing. I'm sure it has relevance to something but I tend to believe that it is just you own ego.

Bait away Mr Trolly but I've finished with you I'm afraid.

[jrandom]

We did have one blow up some time back.

Any idea how old it was, in terms of rounds fired?

IPSC shooting then. Good practice.

Groovy. You shoot IPSC? What division(s) do you shoot in, with what weapon(s) of choice?

[Swoop]

I can shoot fine from many distances.
Bait away Mr Trolly but I've finished with you I'm afraid.

Whatever. [/education]

Any idea how old it was, in terms of rounds fired?

I will ask the owner next time I see him. I am led to believe there were several, very similar, occurrences around the country. Same vintage glocks.

[scumdog]

Well, if your pocket is deep enough , you can avoid the demerits by regoing the vehicle to a company and claiming that you cannot determine who was driving. (assumes of course that you didn't get stopped at the time) .

They have that situation in Aussie - and if the 'company' can't (read won't?) identify who is driving then they pay the double the amount of the fine.

[scumdog]

That arse hole is so lucky the cop was an armed defender who could shoot really well, a General Duty Cop would have more than likey killed him as it is easyer to shoot to kill than aim for a leg.

CRAP!
The shot would have been more luck than planned!!

[Ixion]

They have that situation in Aussie - and if the 'company' can't (read won't?) identify who is driving then they pay the double the amount of the fine.

Yes. Prolly not worth the bother here, cos "non - stopped" tickets are rareish. But if they ever introduce demerits with speed cameras here, then everyone will do it (thaz why is more common in Oz) . Lot of folk would be happy to trade of no demerits for a double fine (or even more)

[spudchucka]

Whatever. [/education]

Last comment in this thread:

At 50 metres the sight picture is virtually non-existant with a glock, (the sights cover the entire target), which makes it just slightly more difficult to aim for centre of mass.

At 200 metres you would have no sight picture at all, you would just be shooting in the general direction.

Your arguement is pointless.

[scumdog]

Go and do some IPSC shooting then. Good practice. Have you heard of the "Service match"? It is an official NRA match competition based on police distances and stances. You start on the 25 yard line and move closer through different courses of fire. Find out about it, you will learn quite a lot.

A good reason for you to stay with your mindset that you can only shoot from 3-5metres then... Go and practice and stay away from the general public please! Ask your supervisor for more training time or join a pistol club and train more.

IPSC?
"Tell 'im 'es dreamin'" (form The Castle)

In IPSC you are going against yourself (ok and those more accurate and faster) but NOBODY is a threat, you don't have to wear body-armour, you have better sights than the 'issue' Glock AND you very likely won't be cranking on the "New York" trigger.

A dropped mag , jam or empty pistol won't get you killed, niether will not clearing the holster cleanly, your mates laughter will make you feel like you wish you were dead though.

And it's not ONLY 3-5metres but some of the training is for that distance.

See Spudchuckas comments on what view of the target you have at 50 metres, at 200 you would have to hold the Glock at howitzer anges to get the bullets on target, with the factory sight the target would be below the sights completely.

But keep the comments coming - others might learn from them

[jrandom]

In IPSC you are going against yourself (ok and those more accurate and faster) but NOBODY is a threat...

Yeah.

I reckon IPSC should be more like 'The Running Man'.

I'd quite like to see Eric Grauffel having to headshot his way through the ROs to finish a stage, while they return fire.

[sAsLEX]

See Spudchuckas comments on what view of the target you have at 50 metres, at 200 you would have to hold the Glock at howitzer anges to get the bullets on target, with the factory sight the target would be below the sights completely.

But keep the comments coming - others might learn from them

Simple every second round a tracer and walk the round on to target..........




pt

[Swoop]

IPSC?

Yes. Performance pressure. Time, distance, reloads, movement, stance, etc, etc. Go NRA if you like...
If you really want to, you can wear body armour, I doubt the RO will penalise you for it...

[scumdog]

Yes. Performance pressure. Time, distance, reloads, movement, stance, etc, etc. Go NRA if you like...
If you really want to, you can wear body armour, I doubt the RO will penalise you for it...

Yep, the thought that somebody might start shooting at you could be called 'performance pressure' I guess...

[jrandom]

If you really want to, you can wear body armour...

It would be funny, wouldn't it.

Turning up to an IPSC shoot in Level 5 modular body armour and a Fritz helmet.

I think the point our esteemed copper friends here are trying to make, though, is that virtually no general-duties police shooting situations have anything in common with such Rainbox Six antics. Neither do they have much in common with the timer-beeping and mandatory reloads of a Service Pistol match.

Whatever mandatory qualification was necessary for the chaps who took out Burton with three shots seems to have been quite sufficient when the chips were down...