Does Fast Track Riding = Fast Road Riding

[wkid_one]

I ask pose this thought from the other thread.....

I think someone who is fast on the road - will be fast on the track....but someone who is fast on the track, won't necessarily be fast on the road.

Why do I say this....well road riding requires more 'adaptation' to the conditions and more attention as there is the unknown factor.  Whereas riding on the track - you know there is no oncoming traffic, the track will be flat with no pot holes etc - you only need to concentrate on fewer variables

A road rider needs to be able to not only ride fast but quickly alter line/speed/braking to suit completely variable and often unknown conditions

Your thoughts?

[bluninja]

I would have thought a fast racer would be equally fast on the road as they also have lots of variables to consider. Also whilst there are some gifted and fast riders out there, many have their favourite roads that they ride again and again and other than the odd nuisance of traffic and police it is much like riding an extended track.

In the end, a lot of the road stuff comes down to attitude. I have an attitude that is probably more geared to leaving big margins for error, therefore even if my skills were better I would always be slower than someone who rides at the edge of the envelope. Also with attitude, there may well be some people out there who consider the moral/social consequences of their speed on the roads and so choose not to go fast.

I realise I'm talking about racers, as opposed to trackday enthusiasts, that perhaps don't race, but I just thought I'd put my view in from that angle.

I guess the proof would be to have a road based TT race (as opposed to battle of the streets). Still no traffic, but it would certainly be a better test than less than 5km of track before it repeats.

TTFN

[Dave]

I used to think I was fast on the road-Quicker than all my friends,but still safe and only 2 accidents in 10 years-thrashing a 91 GSXR 750 for the last few years and being able to travel faster than mates on larger faster bikes-Then I started racing,I was the nowhere man.I got absolutely dorked,You can not even ever travel close to as fast and hard as you can ride on the race track.
This I proved by riding My GP bike on the road up near my place at Kaukap. Open road and I was riding the clutch in first gear to get around most of the corners 80-100k/hr.
I think it proved to me just how much quicker you travel on the race track.
I do know people that race that do not hold road licences and have never ridden road bikes-I don't think they would last 5 minutes on the road.
Given that a rider has a set amount of concentration,and applies himself to the task 100%.That attention gets spread around far more areas on the road than on the track.
Road;-traffic,pedestrians,potholes,cops,weather,tirednes s,fuel useage,grip,speed,etc.
Racetrack;-grip,revs,rider in front of you,braking points.

so it seems to make sense that the amount of speed able to be achieved on the road safeley would be less than on a race track.

[wkid_one]

I am glad this sparked conversation - my job here is done!

[Motu]

Hah,I answered on the other thread! But I would like to add that the biggest buzzes I've ever had on a bike has been at tracks - but I still prefer to ride on the road.Mainly because my prefered roads are a bit more ''difficult'' than the roads sports riders use.I wish supermotard was in NZ 20yrs ago,thats where I would be.

[Marmoot]

I like to think two of them as two different things, not really connected. Each has its own art and thrills.

I've seen fast racer went white and slowed down really much on the road, complaining "it's too unpredictable and dangerous".

And I've seen fast road riders went really slow on the track, saying "well, i'm not used to using the right side of the road".

Personally, I like road much more than track. More art, more thrills

[SPman]

I know of an extremely fast road rider, who, as Dave says, was absolutely dicked on the track! This is a guy who covered 1600 k in 10 hrs on the road - Ak to Napier 3hrs20 - but on a track...........nah!

[Dave]

I think certain types of riding suit certain types of people.
And then theres vespa riders (are they people?)

[Marmoot]

1600k in 10 hours is not fast!
It is BLOODY LUCKY

most people would've got caught on the second hour on that run

[wkid_one]

My best is 4 1/2 hours Wellington to Auckland - trying to have SOME social responsibility.....not truly proud of it.

The funny thing is - it was my last trip that took 7 hours that I got ticketed on!!  Where is the justice in that?

Any who - speeding is a natural by product of riding a bike.  Speeding on the road is even better because of the unknown quantity.  Somehow there is thrill to be had when you pass a car before a corner thinking 'shite.....not much road left'.

I must say the ride Marmoot, Andy, BB, BigB, Mike and I took to Kawhia was fantastic in April/May

The backroads Marmoot took us on from the Drury Turnoff on - meant we essentially road raced all the way to Ngarawhaia - fantastic....that is why I love biking on the road.  We had sections of wheel to wheel action where all three of us were pushing (and Marmoot was on a fecked front tyre no less)....FAN - BLOODY - TASTIC - better than any track day.

 

[bikerboy]

Even a slow poke like me enjoyed that ride Wkid.

Are you being punished for something or on the lamb? Your relocation to Wellington came as a cruel twist of fate after the keyboard to keyboard slug fest with the Welly lads a few months back.

Are you planning a return soon or have we lost "ye great ride organizer" to the wind brigade?

I know

[Marmoot]

a fecked front tyre no less

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

[Two Smoker]

HHmmmmmm, i knoe my uncle raced (and still does) most of his life, yet never rode on the road....... Then a few years ago (hes 70 now) and he started road riding, got my Dad to give him some pointers, and now is BLOODY fast on the road...... He believes that road riding makes you faster on the track because of the adaptions that you have to make.....

He did the IOMTT and still does 1 minute 16's at Puke on a TZ350 at the age of 70

[Bob]

I'm certainly not a fast rider, but having done road and track, I'd say doing track time certainly helps with your road riding.

Track gives you the chance to get out there and try things, see just what you can do as well as your bike, without cow poo, dorks coming the other way etc, with great surfaces (Don't know about your tracks, but the surfacing on our tracks beats our roads hands down!)

First time I ever did a track day, coming home the journey (about 100 miles) took 45 minutes less than the trip up. Thanks to the track work, my road positioning etc was much better and I was far smoother on the road.

So does road riding help with the track? Well constant practice has to help. And road riders are used to dealing with all sorts of conditions and circumstances. Nice story a make told me (and this guy is a decent track rider - he was under 10 seconds off the track record at Castle Combe - and he was riding an old ZX10 as opposed to the race-spec superbike (ridden by Jamie Whitham) that holds the record). He went on a track day - and it started raining. Hard. The 'track day only' riders were all talking about packing up and going home - but the road riders just got on with it, as they'd be out on a great road surface and could have some fun!

[FROSTY:Me]

I rthink the one major difference between a fast road rider and a racer is in agression levels and comfort zones. I do clearly remember last time I was racing getting apsolute shite from my mates for cutting in too close to them on the road and weaving through the pack. To me i had a ton of room but to them it was too close.
Making the transisition back to racing Im noticing I have the road rather than race habit of ensuring theres enough room.