Ammo in the SUV war - From NZ researchers

[McJim]

The thing I like about SUVs is they're like crayfish - hard on the outside but the insides are generally really soft. I just keep following them after they've cut me up - they have to stop sometime - then you can deal with the soft bits inside - eeeeasy!

[spookytooth]

If what other ppl drive is someones biggest worry then i envey them.I have far more important shit to worry about.Like if i should empty the asshtray befor or after i have another ciggy

[Phurrball]

The Sydney City council is only pandering to the sort of anti SUV bigotry on display here on this thread. In a city full of buses, trucks and vans you'll never make a reasoned agument that SUV's should be excluded because of the road space they take up!

That's not the argument that's trying to be made. You need a special class of licence for a bus (though you'd hardly know it sometimes!!!), and I hardly see the bling van becoming the accessory Du jour in the leafier suburbs. The argument is a utilitarian one - greatest good for the greatest number.

The problem is the magnification of poor driving skills that is caused by 4x4s. I'd be pretty happy to come across anyone in this forum (even Finn ) in a 4x4, as they're all motorcyle aware. Bikers would not be the ones halfway across the centreline in a 4x4 round blind corners in the twisty bits near my home - at least if the offenders were in a car, they'd be a little less over the centreline, and a little less cocksure.

Any poor driving is bad, but poor driving in a city is exacerbated by the very things that make 4x4s useful elsewhere - size, mass, poor handling, height etc

Seriously, read the book I suggest - it's actually interesting, and makes a good case for the larger and larger trend being driven by marketeers exploiting loopholes in US fedaral law. That's the true reason you can buy a bling yank uber-urban-assault vehicle. They're not marketed as working trucks, and the manufacturers love the ladder chassis base, as it's easy to platform share...

Anyhoo - that's enough of this...for now. I gotta get me back to the North Island today...

[Finn]

The only reason I'm getting an LLB, after all, is so I can own the biggest, nastiest, most phallic of SUVs just to show the world how much of a man I am

Thank you for clarifying that you are indeed a jealous loser. Not all of us aspire to have long hair, smelly clothes, dirty dumb kids, live in squallier, eat vegetables and live off the government like you.

Get a job loser.

[Clockwork]

That's not the argument that's trying to be made. You need a special class of licence for a bus (though you'd hardly know it sometimes!!!), and I hardly see the bling van becoming the accessory Du jour in the leafier suburbs. The argument is a utilitarian one - greatest good for the greatest number.....

Hey, why stop there, how about a special license to drive vans and people movers in cities too... after all, these vehicles suffer the same hight and handling problems.

No, on the whole I think its just down to petty mindedness. "We've seen off the smokers and the dog owners, those SUV owners are a pain in the bum!! and after then those bastard motorcylists..... continually speeding and queue jumping." After all, the majority is alway right in a democracy.

[Motu]

Any poor driving is bad, but poor driving in a city is exacerbated by the very things that make 4x4s useful elsewhere - size, mass, poor handling, height etc

the manufacturers love the ladder chassis base, as it's easy to platform share...

that's enough of this...:

So you want to make another licence for 4x4 drivers - oh great,there will need to be consultants,and whole new department set up....There is probably a thread somewhere where you are complaining about the Labour Government,but really you want to work for them.

I don't see any problem about 4x4 handing - the problem is the people expect them not to handle like a 4x4.

Modern SUV's....and that's what you are talking about here....don't have a chassis anymore.

Yes,that's quite enough on this subject from you,just quietly close the door....we can carry on without you.

[avgas]

Hey, why stop there, how about a special license to drive vans and people movers in cities too... after all, these vehicles suffer the same hight and handling problems.

Actually no. Talk to someone who has driven a lot of vehicles rather than running off on half arsed assumptions. Or at least look at the suspension and wheelbase of such vehicles.
cos what you are talking right now is BS

[Phurrball]

I don't see any problem about 4x4 handing - the problem is the people expect them not to handle like a 4x4.

Exactly - they make muppetiness worse. Nowhere do I advocate a special licence.

Modern SUV's....and that's what you are talking about here....don't have a chassis anymore.

Talking specifically re 'Full-size' American SUVs as sourced in the book I quoted. I know most don't now.

Yes,that's quite enough on this subject from you,just quietly close the door....we can carry on without you.

Cheers. If you can find me bleating about the Labour gov't in any terms stronger than 'lesser of 2 evils' I owe you a beer Motu

And Finn -

Thank you for clarifying ...

learn to read. I see comprehension isn't your strongest point. If I ever meet ya, I'll buy you a beer, then we can argue IRL...the world is a boring place without argument.

[limbimtimwim]

I party when I see images like the attached.

I totally agree with the comment that SUVs magnify poor driving. If an SUV driver is rude and parks bad, it's a bigger problem. If a SUV driver drives slow, it's a bigger problem because you can't see through (In a car)/ over (On a bike) them.

But they make bigger fireballs, so I don't think we should ban 'em, just torch 'em for fun.

[Guitana]

Well the only problem I see with SUV's & 4WD's is the people that drive them, you know the middle class mum in the Toyota Landcruiser picking the kiddies up from school.That was a sight regularly seen in the country where i grew up(mostly Hiluxes, but these woman could drive!!!) but in the city and suburbs why do they need them?
I suppose it's the fashion, it's true they don't handle like your average car they are heavier and take longer to stop in an emergency braking situation so why would Joe middle class buy one for his family? Well they probably see it as a safer vehicle the bigger the better, cars and motorbikes will just bounce off the front bullbars.No more trips to the panel beaters coz wifey keeps clipping the bollards at the local mall etc etc.
The people driving these vehicles treat them like a car and thats where the problem lies.Most of them have probably never even been used in 4wd offroad.
I own one and treat it with the respect it deserves it dose'nt go over 100kmh
and is always driven to the road conditions!
Buy a Toyota Camry if you want to drop the kids at school and need a bit of space in the boot!!!!

[Clockwork]

Actually no. Talk to someone who has driven a lot of vehicles rather than running off on half arsed assumptions. Or at least look at the suspension and wheelbase of such vehicles.
cos what you are talking right now is BS

Talk to me about half arsed assumptions!... you know nothing about what experence I have in driving any vehicle.

[Finn]

If an SUV driver is rude and parks bad, it's a bigger problem.

Talking about rude parking, I was near the University the other day and this bloody student parked their scooter under my SUV.

Inconsiderate shits.

[Finn]

Well the only problem I see with SUV's & 4WD's is the people that drive them, you know the middle class mum in the Toyota Landcruiser picking the kiddies up from school.That was a sight regularly seen in the country where i grew up(mostly Hiluxes, but these woman could drive!!!) but in the city and suburbs why do they need them?
I suppose it's the fashion, it's true they don't handle like your average car they are heavier and take longer to stop in an emergency braking situation so why would Joe middle class buy one for his family? Well they probably see it as a safer vehicle the bigger the better, cars and motorbikes will just bounce off the front bullbars.No more trips to the panel beaters coz wifey keeps clipping the bollards at the local mall etc etc.
The people driving these vehicles treat them like a car and thats where the problem lies.Most of them have probably never even been used in 4wd offroad.
I own one and treat it with the respect it deserves it dose'nt go over 100kmh
and is always driven to the road conditions!
Buy a Toyota Camry if you want to drop the kids at school and need a bit of space in the boot!!!!

It's not fair, I want one too!!!

[Guitana]

It's not fair, I want one too!!!

It's yours for 7k I want to buy a new bike!!!

[Ixion]

If there were no SUVs the people currently driving badly in them would drive equally badly in something else.

BTW what ever is the point of a 4x4 without a separate chassis? It's sort of the whole point of the vehicle. What happens the first time you hit a tree? I shall have to watch out for that if I ever replace the Pajero.