*Warning* Maori sovereignty thread *Warning*

**pixc** · 3rd February 2007, 12:02

Maori have grievances about what happened 100-150 years ago....shouldnt they take it up with England?

Incidently where do I stand in this debate? I dunno. I think its a joke. I want to move forward in life..not get hung up what my great great grand did/didnt do

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd February 2007, 13:15

Originally Posted by pixc

Maori have grievances about what happened 100-150 years ago....shouldnt they take it up with England? YEP

Incidently where do I stand in this debate? I dunno. I think its a joke. I want to move forward in life..not get hung up what my great great grand did/didnt do

I'd think that would be what most Kiwis (of all colours) would want to do. It is only a 'select' few who are not interested in moving forward. The insidious thing about them is that they 'can't move forward until the wrongs are addressed' yet every one of those wrongs just leads to another (real or invented). Let England deal with it. Kiwis are tired of fixing the bullshit.

**Pathos** · 3rd February 2007, 15:47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mori_Or...in_New_Zealand

research is a good thing.

**doc** · 3rd February 2007, 16:10

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Let England deal with it. Kiwis are tired of fixing the bullshit.

I knew it was Dovers fault, he's even moved in among them to wind them up more.

**Clivoris** · 3rd February 2007, 20:29

Originally Posted by The_Dover

what a crock of shit. we don't need to judge you as maori and we don't give a fuck whether you are or not.

you're the wankers that need to differentiate yourself and want special treatment because you are.

we don't need to judge you because your race is irrelevant. to us.

This confuses me Dover. You don't give a fuck about whether or not I'm Maori as long as I don't do it in front of you? How is wanting a flag flown asking for special treatment? Maori are different. Maybe not in ways that you care about or want to understand, but it seems like if some Maori want to express and celebrate this difference it is offensive.

Originally Posted by The_Dover

you race doesn't make me angry. your demands for recognition based on it do.

I choose to treat people based on who they are, not what they are. Can I demand to fly the scottish flag (based on my heritage and that of many thousand kiwis) on the harbour bridge St Andrews day?

Fly whatever flag you want for all I care. Will you treat me differently if I want my children to grow up speaking Maori? Will you treat me differently if I want my children to be able to speak Maori as part of their daily life, or will that be o.k only if they don't expect the community that they live in to accomodate this desire? I honestly want to understand this.

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Surely that's the issue, while the NZ flag does represent us all the Maori flag doesn't, its a flag of exclusivity, a sort of "up yours" that these people want to fly on a day that the rest of us are trying to celebrate nationhood/unity.

It saddens me that so many people believe ideas like this. Why does a group of people asserting their identity interfere with unity? The only thing that prevents unity is people intolerant of difference. This applies to Maori and non-Maori.

Originally Posted by Disco Dan

it winds me up something cronic when people in this country bleat on and on about how their great, great uncle twice removed once dated a half maori which lived next door.. so that makes them 'a maori' ..now gimme all my extra benifits.

Im English - and fricking darn proud of my country. I choose to live here because its clean and pretty safe.

For a nation to become an equal society we must all recognise each other as being 'equal' - ie THE SAME.. Human.

Alot of Maori people seem to think they are somehow superiour... which is very sad.

Good on you for being proud of being English. I would do whatever I could to let you express your Englishness.
Do we have to be the same to be equal? What do you mean by equal? Where are all these Maori getting ahead of you in life with their special benefits? If you are keen to remove special benefits would it be ok to remove the special benefits that come from being part of, or aligned with the successful colonisers?

Originally Posted by pixc

Maori have grievances about what happened 100-150 years ago....shouldnt they take it up with England?

Incidently where do I stand in this debate? I dunno. I think its a joke. I want to move forward in life..not get hung up what my great great grand did/didnt do

I have no idea about the technicalities of Treaty law. I wont let ignorance hold me back though. I would guess that the Crown (England) was initially represented here by a colonial government. Somehow that evolved into a more independent self-governance through the beneficence of the crown, with our government taking over the crown's interest and responsibilities. My understanding is that when Maori have tried to take it up with England through avenues such as the privy council, they either haven't been interested or their recomendations have ben ignored by our government.

Maori are moving forward. It is slow but inevitable, and gaining momentum. As more Maori become educated and have access to economic well-being there will be greater assertion of the Maori world-view. Education and money equal power. People who don't recognise this and cling to the politics of the 80's (Maori and non-Maori) are the ones who are failing to move forward. Still it would be nice if more people took time to understand the grievances that Maori have and acknowledge them. The reality is that sweet fuck all can be done about it now, but if some things can be done, why shouldn't they be done?

**The_Dover** · 3rd February 2007, 20:38

Originally Posted by Clivoris

This confuses me Dover. You don't give a fuck about whether or not I'm Maori as long as I don't do it in front of you? How is wanting a flag flown asking for special treatment? Maori are different. Maybe not in ways that you care about or want to understand, but it seems like if some Maori want to express and celebrate this difference it is offensive.

Fly whatever flag you want for all I care. Will you treat me differently if I want my children to grow up speaking Maori? Will you treat me differently if I want my children to be able to speak Maori as part of their daily life, or will that be o.k only if they don't expect the community that they live in to accomodate this desire? I honestly want to understand this.

It saddens me that so many people believe ideas like this. Why does a group of people asserting their identity interfere with unity? The only thing that prevents unity is people intolerant of difference. This applies to Maori and non-Maori.

Good on you for being proud of being English. I would do whatever I could to let you express your Englishness.
Do we have to be the same to be equal? What do you mean by equal? Where are all these Maori getting ahead of you in life with their special benefits? If you are keen to remove special benefits would it be ok to remove the special benefits that come from being part of, or aligned with the successful colonisers?

I have no idea about the technicalities of Treaty law. I wont let ignorance hold me back though. I would guess that the Crown (England) was initially represented here by a colonial government. Somehow that evolved into a more independent self-governance through the beneficence of the crown, with our government taking over the crown's interest and responsibilities. My understanding is that when Maori have tried to take it up with England through avenues such as the privy council, they either haven't been interested or their recomendations have ben ignored by our government.

Maori are moving forward. It is slow but inevitable, and gaining momentum. As more Maori become educated and have access to economic well-being there will be greater assertion of the Maori world-view. Education and money equal power. People who don't recognise this and cling to the politics of the 80's (Maori and non-Maori) are the ones who are failing to move forward. Still it would be nice if more people took time to understand the grievances that Maori have and acknowledge them. The reality is that sweet fuck all can be done about it now, but if some things can be done, why shouldn't they be done?

mate, i give up.

speak maori, others speak their own languages, i don't care I just wont understand.

transit say no flag, then no flag.

**doc** · 3rd February 2007, 20:57

Maoridom can do whatever it wants to do. Just don't expect me to pay for it. We have a society that is basically lead by the Labour Government ideals (Roger Douglas) you know the man who said "There will be some pain for some" which bought in the "User Pays" philosophy And no one in power has changed that yet. When Maori can pay for their beliefs go for it. Just leave me alone I've got enough problems.

**Grahameeboy** · 3rd February 2007, 21:00

The past is just that, the present is now and the future yet to be told...........I think the Maori Culture is the only true and worthwhile culture NZ has, however, it is being spoilt by what appears to be greed not tradition.

This latest Kumara issue is just ridiculous...............it is hard to take things seriously.

No one owns the land, we are just keepers which have changed over the Centuries and we should all realise this and enjoy this fine country which with such a low population cannot afford all this crap because in the end it will all end up biting everyone's bum and there will be no winners.

We should listen and acknowledge and then just move on..............please.

**The_Dover** · 3rd February 2007, 21:02

Originally Posted by doc

Just leave me alone I've got enough problems.

MV still falling apart on you huh?

**Ixion** · 3rd February 2007, 21:02

But before you move on, buy me a drink. Speights , thanks.

**doc** · 3rd February 2007, 21:05

Originally Posted by The_Dover

MV still falling apart on you huh?

Got new headlite under warranty now got a fuckin cracked lens from stone chip.

**elle-f** · 3rd February 2007, 21:13

Why do you assume that we want people paying for us? I work and think I am beneficial to society and I do what I can. I love being the culture/s that I am. I also don't have problems so therapy is out however, I can offer you free sessions since you are a kiwi biker

**doc** · 3rd February 2007, 21:18

Originally Posted by elle33f

Why do you assume that we want people paying for us? I work and think I am beneficial to society and I do what I can. I love being the culture/s that I am. I also don't have problems so therapy is out however, I can offer you free sessions since you are a kiwi biker

Good on you but are you paying enough to support the rest of your clan. User pays you know. Why the fcuk do dole bluggers pay tax ?

**candor** · 3rd February 2007, 21:30

Another 5 cents. One time too many they said it.

150 yrs ago - generations ago -- grandaddys problem --- Mummy Englands

No Noooo Noooo uh uh NO! RECENT RECENT RECENT. Fore-shaaaww

Also Tarianas latest speech expressed a new grievance - Maori apparently excluded from getting 20 hours of free childcare that others can get

**Colapop** · 3rd February 2007, 21:34

You kn ow what I jus t got bak frim thes sevens and tehre's nno bullshit jusst kiwis. 7's ropck11 EVERYbosdy having a good tine tahts all jusy god times