TV 8/2/07: Inside New Zealand - 4WD menace

[Ixion]

,,

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .

[Wolf]

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .

But wouldn't that infringe on everyone's inalienable right to drive whatever the fuck they want irrespective of whether or not they're capable of handling it?

[Finn]

What sort of suv is that?????? Looks more like a family s/w to me......
(though it is possible old age is getting my eyesight a bit, but it looks pretty small...)

I couldn't tell but I'd imagine you'd be much safer in a bigger one. Anyway, I'm off in the SUV to pick up some beers. It'll be carnage.

[KLOWN]

So, if the legitimate complaint about SUVs and 4x4s is that some people do not know how to drive them properly, would that not be addressed if one had to have a special licence class endorsement - a 1a class. Half way between a class 1 and a class 2? Or, more simple, reduce the weight limit for a class 2?

I drive a 4x4 (occassionally) , I would have no issue with having to sit an appropriate test . And presumably the mommy wagon mommys and muppets would either not buy them, or fail the test?

It would be practical and cost very little to implement or administer (SUV and 4x4 are already a different vehicle class); and if phased in over a period should be only a very slight inconvenience to the competant .

the problem with this is the INcompetant will still pass the test cause it seems like all the driving tests are a joke. Who the fuck fails thier test its sooooo fuckin easy !@!! (or was when i took mine)

[Wolf]

Unfortunately Wolf, you've struck a nerve.

So 'twould seem - enough to get me red-repped, too.

[onearmedbandit]

Wolf, people won't always agree with you, that I'm sure you know. And the rep system is there for both agreeing with something someone posted, and also for disagreeing as well. Don't take it to heart when someone shows their opinion via rep, unless it is abusive.

[Clockwork]

I wasn't going to participate in this thread because quite honestly, as OAB says I'm getting sick of having to defend my choice of vehicle but...

I'm the first to admit that, in my opinion, cars are purely utilitarian - a means to carry things I cannot carry on a bike - and that I'm pretty much uninterested in all cars except veteran, classic or vintage cars.

How do these cars contribute to road safety? I'd suggest that my 4x4 breaks and corners way better than most cars in this category!

But yeah, nobody driving an SUV in NZ is a pretentious git with no need for one. Every single SUV owner in the country is responsible, mature, well versed in the risks and can justify their need to have one. To suggest otherwise is part of a gummint plot to control the Earth at the behest of the Eco-Nazis in their eco-friendly black helicopters.

Of course you can jump straight into an SUV and expect the same cornering, stopping ability and visibility as in your mum's Camry, they're totally interchangeable with 2-wheel-drive vehicles and no extra considerations need be taken. To suggest otherwise is the action of a stupid tree-hugging hippy.

Why do people assume that because the car is clean and being driven around the suburbs...... by
"a woman"
that the family has no need for an SUV. And I'd say that the all-round visibility from my SUV was as good if not better than ANY other saloon car I've owned.

How many dealers advise the buyers of the risks involved in them and the differences between them and smaller 2-wheel drive cars?

Very few, I suspect. Many are more concerned with the commission/profit on the >$50K vehicle than ensuring the Remuera "soccer-mom" has a clue about what she's getting into.

The problem is not the number of SUVs on the road. The problem is the percentage of those SUVs that are driven to people who haven't progressed beyond a Honda City.

Would you expect the same "talk" when bying a small truck/people mover/van/motorbike/vintage car? I'm sure dealer's don't get any more commision for selling SUVs than any other car.

They are lots of alternatives to SUVs in most cases - a V8 saloon will happily tow a boat or horse float, a people-mover seats up to 8 people - many (not all) people choose to own an SUV only because it is more prestigeous than the alternatives. Sure, fine, their prerogative - but also their responsibility.

Which V8 saloon will take 5 adults comfortably up a mountian to go skiing, and along the beach, towing a boat/caravan and move reasonable volumes of cargo without a trailer and allow the owner to trek off-road as and when they choose; and commute comortably, because my 2.7 ltr 4 cyl deisel could do all of this. And you know what.... I think my wife even ran the kids to school it it once or twice!

But then it has to do all this... because its the only car we have!!

[KLOWN]

everyone is getting a bit uppitty/defensive in this topic when the original post and subsquent posts from wolf is just saying it would be an informative watch hes NOT saying death to all suv drivers, i don't believe anyone is. But if all your posts are anything to go by its safe to say that suv/4x4 drivers are a sensitive and defensive bunch that just needs to believe that everyone is not out to get them and thier precious 4x4s

edit: also when I think back EVERY 4x4 that i can remember on the road has been a pushie and shit driver.

BUT you only remember the bad things and never the good because they haven't done anything to upset you so y remember them.

[kro]

And I'm sure it will be a great comfort to me when I'm in hospital, getting what's left of my legs removed, that we live in a country where people are free to purchase vehicles they have no ability to control and not have to concern themselves with knowing the vehicle's weaknesses and risks.

A 15 yr old can get his/her drivers license, and on the same day, can get behind the wheel of a 450hp Skyline turbo, and within 18 months (ish) of obtaining a bike license, you can easily acquire a motorcycle that will rape the skyline at a fraction of the price, yet an SUV is a vehicle that requires special handling?.

Sorry dude, I used to come from your end of the spectrum, but the reality eventually overtook my prejudice, and I realised that all vehicles require special handling, and consideration. Are all family sedans driven the same way?. The 1999 Toyota sedan with ABS brakes can be braked hard as hell by a rookie driver, without locking the brakes up, but the same driver jumps into the 1985 Mitsi Sigma, and gets it fully locked and sideways during his first outing because the mitsi didn't have the ABS, and he/she failed to drive accordingly.

What about the XM Falcon with 4 wheel drums?, it's gonna be even worse..... you see what I'm saying?.

[Clockwork]

Fair enough Klown, I guess we all have our sore points but the ragging and moaning is starting to wear a bit thin for me on this topic (and I called myself clockwork for a reson you know )

Maybe poor driving skills are magnified by SUVs but extra training/licensing isn't going to change anything.... after all these clowns (no offense) plus may other poor drivers have already passed the hardest test by getting a license in the first place. At the end of the day the biggest problem seems to be that some drivers are just plain inconsiderate and I can't see how any amount of testing can ever change that.

As far as I can see the so called "safety issues" paraded around SUV ownership is simply another attempt at trying to "moan" these vehicles off the road.

[KLOWN]

Fair enough Klown, I guess we all have our sore points but the ragging and moaning is starting to wear a bit thin for me on this topic (and I called myself clockwork for a reson you know )

Maybe poor driving skills are magnified by SUVs but extra training/licensing isn't going to change anything.... after all these clowns (no offense) plus may other poor drivers have already passed the hardest test by getting a license in the first place. At the end of the day the biggest problem seems to be that some drivers are just plain inconsiderate and I can't see how any amount of testing can ever change that.

As far as I can see the so called "safety issues" paraded around SUV ownership is simply another attempt at trying to "moan" these vehicles off the road.

I see your point. I personnally like 4x4s and was looking at getting one before I got my bike. I think this "moaning" about 4x4 is the same thing as the govt "moaning" about speeding. Speeding dosent kill, crossing the white line, loosing control of the vehiicle is what kills... speeding just makes the damage worse. 4x4 being much heavier are more leathal. Just like the faster you go the bigger the mess, the heavier your car is the bigger the mess (to the other guy) The biggest problem I see with 4x4 is the same as any other car/bike/ute the DRIVER. NZ driver standards are poor and the test are WAY to easy. You never get tested on the open road and other enviroments that you have to drive in everyday its just stupid. I saw a program on sky once about the auto bahn(sp?) and what the driver go through there before they get thier license. MONTHS of practice with a driving instructor on A roads B raods on the auto bahn in the rain in good weather etc they get taught in every condition that you may have to face not, to use an analogy, i've taught you how to doggy paddle thefore you can now swim the english channel what a load of shit.

I do enjoy winding people up though so my apologies for any undue stress caused to you 4x4 drivers

have a good time in them BUT take them OFFROAD its SOSO SO SO much fun ripping up the mud/sand etc use your vehicles to thier potential.

another quick side note. There is a guy who comes into my work in a porsche cyanne(sp?) and I had a chat with him about it (i LOVE porsches) and he uses it on his farm he has even transported a calf in the back of it LOL all the 4x4 even the bmw x5 CAN go off road and they may not be the best at it but they can still do it.

[JimO]

4X4s rule ................

[chanceyy]

Idiots who don't deserve to be on the road do not understand the difference between the handling capabilites of a SUV and a sedan. These same idiots would be a danger in a car, on a bike, etc. Everyone I know who owns an SUV understands they are not car like and drive them accordingly.

I understand you are trying to point out that people need to be better educated when considering buying one of these vehicles. However, SUV owners are getting sick and tired of having to defend themselves due to the actions of the minority. And believe me, sick and tired of it. Want to know how many morons have tried pointing out to me that my 2.5 tonne 4x4 doesn't handle like a car. Well fucking done. You don't think I realise that? I do drive the thing.

Kind of like motorcyclists getting sick and tired of being called 'temporary NZ's' or 'organ donors'. Not all of us, despite riding these dangerous two wheeled 'death traps' are intent on heading to an early grave.

Unfortunately Wolf, you've struck a nerve.

How about instead of targeting 4x4 owners or motorcyclists or boy racers or elderly people or immigrants we instead target the most deadly aspect of motoring in NZ? The New Zealand drivers licence system.

well said OMB, I have seen my share of shit drivers/riders but do not hold everyone who drives a car/truck/suv or rides motorbike in the same light .. its the mentality of drivers that must change & here in NZ we are pretty damn agressive on the road .. I know that I am .. but I also drive my 4x4 alot differently than my old car ... its not a matter of educating suv owners its about educating everyone who drives/rides on the roads ... & as previously stated the conditions of the roads are getting worse not better .. & of course the congestion of traffic is not helping ....

[DEATH_INC.]

Should I return your red "bling" because I disagree with you?

Yes, this is what it's for.

[DEATH_INC.]

BTW, the most intimidatind vehicle I've ever owned wasn't a 4wd, it was a loud as 72(ish) ford fairlaine with tints and mags etc, shoulda seen 'em scatter when i came up behind 'em in that