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Thread: Stats Stats and More Stats

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    I don't really give a stuff about numbers supplied by the LTSA or any overseas agency. As I see it motorists sometimes lose control of their vehicles. They do so for a large number of reasons, one of which is speed, regardless of whether it is above or below the posted speed limit or if it results in a fatality or not it is still a contributing factor in many crashes. If those motorists who have lost control were driving slower then they probably would have maintained control and the crash would not have happened or the consequences may not have been as severe.
    I think the point is that speed isn't the only thing that caused them to crash.There must have been other causes too.(though in this case it does sound like excessive speed was the main one...)
    Example;on the last KB coromandel ride(you know the one...)the guy that crashed first was between two other riders who took the corner at the same speed as he was going.They went around the corner(as did others) he didn't.How could speed be the cause of this accident?
    Not picking at you spud,just something to think about......
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  2. #32
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    10th December 2003 - 13:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.
    I think the point is that speed isn't the only thing that caused them to crash.There must have been other causes too.(though in this case it does sound like excessive speed was the main one...)
    Example;on the last KB coromandel ride(you know the one...)the guy that crashed first was between two other riders who took the corner at the same speed as he was going.They went around the corner(as did others) he didn't.How could speed be the cause of this accident?
    Not picking at you spud,just something to think about......
    Well I'm not saying and I hate the inference that speed was the cause of the crash or fatality. What I have always tried to say is that speed is a contributing factor in crashes / fatalities and is relevant to almost all crashes in some regard, whether it is just plain crazy speed, speed too fast for the coinditions or the road users was just out of their depth, it is still all relevant in some way to speed.

    There are always other factors but that does not mean that speed wasn't a factor as well. It is peoples attitudes to speed that make it a factor and also make it a controvertial issue that is constantly discussed.

  3. #33
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    13th February 2004 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudchucka
    I'm hesitating before posting much in this thread because I don't want to be accused of starting another bloody speed, bikers versus the police / LTSA etc thread - BUT is not the drivers / riders skills part of the "conditions". Are the riders skills not relevant to the road conditions and vice versa. If they did not have the skills to go THAT fast in THAT corner under THOSE conditions and they subsequently lost control, crashed and killed themselves or another person then can you not reasonably say that speed, relevant to all the conditions, (including the riders skill level) was a contributing factor?? Bearing in mind that skill level is a subjective element that cannot really be measured especially if the rider has snuffed it as a consequence of the crash!!!!!
    I totally agre with your statement there spud.
    It is also so much easier to package it that way, because the statement covers so much - lack of skill, road conditions, tyres etc etc - how would a relative feel if the police came and said "your son crashed because he didnt have sufficient skill to take the corner" It is a blanket statement which is easy to peddle to the media and society with the added bonus of reinforcing the speeding message.

  4. #34
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    27th July 2004 - 00:36
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    Its more about respect for THE speed

    High powered sports cars / race cars / bikes all the same. If its a stright road is sort of ok. But when people don't have the respect for the speed they are doing then all hell breaks loose....

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.
    I think the point is that speed isn't the only thing that caused them to crash.There must have been other causes too.(though in this case it does sound like excessive speed was the main one...)
    Example;on the last KB coromandel ride(you know the one...)the guy that crashed first was between two other riders who took the corner at the same speed as he was going.They went around the corner(as did others) he didn't.How could speed be the cause of this accident?
    Not picking at you spud,just something to think about......
    Without wishing to be too unkind to that unfortunate rider you could still use "excessive speed" - for his skill, for his tyres, for his type of bike, whatever, unless something mechanical or rider based comes into the picture it must have been a problem of the speed being too much for something, - even if it was not over the legal speed limit.
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
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  6. #36
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    SC, this sounds a bit like a 'speed' crusade to me. As has been pointed out, you can't have an accident between 2 stationary vehicles, so speed is always going to be a contributing factor.

    There could have been any number of reasons (as you said) that the particular rider didn't make the corner; yet without knowing what they are, you seem to be suggesting it must be speed related in some way. The problem with stats is that they need something objective to measure, and it's a bit difficult to measure things like target fixation, looking at the odometer as your bike moves on to 10,000 kms (presumed cause of a UK bike fatality), stiffening up in the arms when you see an approaching vehicle in the bend, chopping the throttle in a bend, touching the front brake etc...

    You could say all these only occur because the (rider) perceived speed is too high, and therefore are speed related, but I just think this is just another convenient catchall.

    BTW got a shock when I saw the picture of an old friend in the local newspaper...dead in a motorbike crash....49 years old, a recent license holder on a fireblade....regardless of the cause...he is now another statistic.
    Legalise anarchy

  7. #37
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    12th July 2003 - 01:10
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    bluninja, no, it's not a 'speed' crusade but more an attempt to balance the argument that so many put that speed "can't" be a factor in crashes, -of course there are more factors but you have to have speed of some sort to have a crash, whether it is 'excessive' or 'exceeding the legal limit' it all boils down to speed.

    I'm not condeming it, ride as fast as you want but realise you are going to have to stop at some stage - and it might not be how you planned AND the higher the speed in the wrong circumstances the bigger the 'splat' factor.
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
    " Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"

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