I am a Celt !!!!

[Manxman]

I descend from the highland McLeod's, the nasty one's who smoked the McDonald's to death in a cave way back when.

...I sense a new type of Big Mac in the offing...

[Manxman]

I'm back,

Been away for a few days spreading the genes in the southern climes.

Gotta improve the bloodline whenever possible.

Nice to see this thread has developed so well.

Some serious, some a lile touchy, most enjoyng a real good rant.

I thought I was going to get blown out of the water over this one when I oriinally wrote it.

I was pissed off at inferences both here and elsewhere, that I didnt have a culture or at least one that counted.

The oldest identifiable Celtic remains unearthed were in the Swiss Alps and dated back 7000 years, even those were fairly sophisticated items so modern archeology guesses that the Celts originated somewhere around the steppes of what is now Russia.

How can I as a decendant of these people not have a culture or a proud history.

Not many people know that the story of "King Arthur" as written by Geofry of Monmouthshire came from Celtic stories. He said that he travelled to the "land of the Britons" and used their stories from the Book of the Celts as a basis for his story. His story was written in the 13th century while he was in Cambridge. "The Land of the Britons" refered to was Wales. A celtic country then.

Welsh, Cornish, Irish, Scotts, IOM, and Brettons are all of the bloodline. Apart from a lot of rape and pillage of course.

...now you're talking...unfortunately, I think I'm more related to one of these two:

[Wolf]

Not many people know that the story of "King Arthur" as written by Geofry of Monmouthshire came from Celtic stories. He said that he travelled to the "land of the Britons" and used their stories from the Book of the Celts as a basis for his story. His story was written in the 13th century while he was in Cambridge. "The Land of the Britons" refered to was Wales. A celtic country then.

And he romanticised it, "modernised" it and generally fucked it up with soppy courtly shit. The real "Bear" ("Arth" or "Ursus") is said to have unified Nationalist and Imperialist factions in post-Roman-Occupation "Britain" against the common enemy of teh Saxons and the Angles around the late 400s. In that way he was like Vercingetorix. Monmouth had him set much later amid chivalry and castles and full plate armour while in reality he would have been far more "down to Earth" in a time of hill forts, boiled or studded leather, chain mail and discarded Roman armour.

The recent movie depicted him as a Roman soldier who stayed behind when the Romans withdrew but historical and literary sources would suggest a native of the region now known as Wales.

The book "King Arthur, The True Story" makes some very good cases for him originating in Gwyneth and being part of a successive line from Ambrosius (often tied into Arthurian legend and in some versions cognate with Arthur but Ambrosius was too early to be the historical Arthur.) The authors believe they have worked out the succession and that "Excalibur" was the sword of office of the Segontium Legion - stationed in Gwyneth - passed onto Ambrosius (and then handed down to his successors) as proof of mandate. There is a rather interesting comparison between Arthur's sword as described in an early text known as "The Dream of Rhonabwy" and the recorded emblem of the Segontium Legion and the authors surmise that it is possible the hilt of the legion's sword of office was fashioned in the style of their emblem. They theorise (largely from the Dream of Rhonabwy's description and the style of swords at the time) that the sword was a "spatha", a Roman sword patterned off the long slashing sword of the Celts, rather than the shorter, thrusting sword of the Romans - the Gladius.

The image they build from historical knowledge (artifacts, historical documents etc) is of a time of turmoil, the land divided between those who prospered under Imperial Law (and desirous of that to remain) and those who wished to return to the tribal lifestyle prior to the occupation. Into this comes the Saxon, the Angles and the Jutes. A man of Celtic stock, chosen as the latest successor to the authority handed over by the departing Romans, rises up to join the two factions together against the invaders. His right to rule the Imperialists proven by his possession of the sword of office, his suitability to command the Nationalists demonstrated by the fact he got them to listen to reason.

They dismiss fanciful tales of huge Medieval castles (not yet built), chivalry (a Norman concept), full plate armour and cruciform swords (not yet in vogue) and talk of warriors armed with old Roman spathas, the Celtic slashing swords after which they were patterned or whatever weapons, farm utensils and hunting weapons they could lay their hands on and dressed in a mish-mash of tunics and trews, leather, chain mail and Roman armour, sleeping in stone or wood hill forts, fighting their enemies out in the open wherever they found them. Nationalist and Imperialist together.

It has long been noted that the name "Arthur" was not known at that time in history and oft theorised that (given the appellation "The Bear" has been applied to Arthur) the name is perhaps an amalgamation of the Celtic "Arth" and the Latin "Ursus", each meaning "bear". Given the political climate at the time and what he is supposed to have achieved, it is not unreasonable that Arth and Ursus became "Arthur", possibly via "Arth-Ursus".

So we have an image. A bear of a man, huge, probably shaggy haired, bearded, imposing, solid, wielding the sword of the Segontium Legion and the eloquence to sway the Nationalists (and convince the Imperialists that it's a good idea).

Interestingly, the authors did their research in the 1980-90s and came to conclusions not too disimilar to those of one Rosemary Sutcliff who wrote "A Sword at Sunset" back in the 1960s. Her Arthur was very much like the historical Arthur proposed by the researchers. Her Arthur was a Celtic Warlord; he raised an army, equipped it with the best horses (to the point that he and a band of followers slept in holding pens at the sale yards in order to get in early and buy the best ones) and took on the Saxons. His troops were a mottley group so far as weapons and armour went (Arthur's sword was a long-bladed weapon with short quillons like a Celtic slashing sword or a Roman spatha) and they camped out, got rained on and took refuge in deserted villages or hill forts. She had enough knowledge of her subject matter to put her fictional rendering of what "King Arthur" must have really been like into realistic perspective. She went all out to create a "man behind the myth" story and her conclusions about what must have been - based on the politics, technology, fashion etc of the 400s - were brilliant.
It is also interesting to note that her characters had the Welsh renderings of the names as per the old sources such as Dream of Rhonabwy, Nennius's battle list and others, not the Norman spellings. Gwynyfawr, I believe, rather than Guinnivere. No Lancelot/Launcelot, no Merlin, no magic.

It did have what could be called "elves" though - fine-boned early inhabitants of the land who had taken to the forests with the coming of later invaders and had stayed there ever since. Skilled in the uses of natural poisons (food and poisoned arrows), excellent at camouflage and guerilla warfare, feared by the Romano-Celtic people at large (never eat their food, beware their arrows, they're known to taint the water in the wells or carry off children and replace them with their own, never venture into the woods alone, leave them offerings of food and drink and they may spare you their mischief... sound familiar?) and are so at home in their forests that they seem to appear and disappear at will. They're fine featured, slender and agile and their ears are not quite as rounded at the tip as those of the general populace...

They aid the warlord in his attacks, causing havoc among the enemy (tainted food and water, disappearances, poison arrows) and bringing intelligence of enemy movements - often to the consternation of some of his own troops who're uneasy about being close to the forest dwellers.

Excellent story, stripping away a lot of the romantic crap and writing a believeable "man behind the legend" story that actually stands up to research done later by a team of researchers.

[MikeyG]

I have no proof but with my regal posture and tendancy to burp after meals (it's a compliment to the chef, honest) I'm sure I'm descended from eastern european royalty

[yungatart]

I have no proof but with my regal posture and tendancy to burp after meals (it's a compliment to the chef, honest) I'm sure I'm descended from eastern european royalty

Mstrs does that too! Maybe you are related

[Ixion]

Their Elbonian Majesties !

[Macktheknife]

jim, you've seen enough of me to know that i don't hide behind anything: i'm a REAL celt

and yes, when i gain the ridiculous right to know which cowards anonymously slam me, i'll most certainly flay them with my cat-o-nine-tongues!

And we hope you will also have the stones to apologise to all those you have wrongly accused! lol

[idleidolidyll]

And we hope you will also have the stones to apologise to all those you have wrongly accused! lol

wrongly accused?

who and of what, make a list

pissing in the wind only gets your leg wet and makes you smelly

[scumdog]

pissing in the wind only gets your leg wet and makes you smelly

And you've certainly got a black-belt in THAT!!

"TUOCH NOT THE CAT BUT A GLOVE"

[idleidolidyll]

And you've certainly got a black-belt in THAT!!

"TUOCH NOT THE CAT BUT A GLOVE"

WOW! That's a massive YAAWWWNNN!!!