Counter steering at speed >100k's

[aff-man]

hmmm i was in this situation a little while ago. I was quite interested to see how the bike manouvers so for all sweeting corners i kinda pushed the bars(a little exaggerated) well not so much as pushed but felt what the bike did. found out the bike dipped into corners heaps more and felt more natural. So tried it on a ride/ motorway same results. Thus i also found out that i when doing this you gotta get body psition right otherwise bike doesn't like it to much. (which is what everyone else has basically said so )

[scroter]

ive forgotten what happens but i know that if you dont counter steer it wont steer unless your doing under about 20 km. even if you think your not doin it you are. counter steering should be automatic and you should practice it enough so you do it automatically. other things that can play a part is suspension settings and if your braking while leaning or not. in fact on an old bike i used to use the brakes to help change direction quickly. if you still struggle with it remember this RELAX AND LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

[Mongoose]

ive forgotten what happens but i know that if you dont counter steer it wont steer unless your doing under about 20 km. even if you think your not doin it you are. counter steering should be automatic and you should practice it enough so you do it automatically. other things that can play a part is suspension settings and if your braking while leaning or not. in fact on an old bike i used to use the brakes to help change direction quickly. if you still struggle with it remember this RELAX AND LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

That last bit f advice is a very valid bit. If you look at the pothole/pedestrian/cage then guess what, that is exactly what you will hit.
Guys used to off road riding tend to autmatically look for escape routes, that fence/gorsebush etc etc is always easier to find a way around than thru.

[DEATH_INC.]

That last bit f advice is a very valid bit. If you look at the pothole/pedestrian/cage then guess what, that is exactly what you will hit.
Guys used to off road riding tend to autmatically look for escape routes, that fence/gorsebush etc etc is always easier to find a way around than thru.

Yeh,true that!I've had a hand momentaraly paralized from a large input of stimulation from a gorsebush......
Here's an interesting thing,countersteering works when yer doing wheelies too,watch me or some of the other guys on a bumpy off camber bit of road,we're turning the bars left/right like crazy just to keep going straight....
You can steer a small amount without countersteering too,try riding along without holding the bars,you can steer a bit by pushing on the pegs,but not lots....

[Posh Tourer :P]

You can steer a small amount without countersteering too,try riding along without holding the bars,you can steer a bit by pushing on the pegs,but not lots....

Watch the bars when you do it though..... they twitch the wrong way when you push, which tips you into the turn. ie the wheel initially turns right a little when you lean left and then the bike tips into the turn

[wkid_one]

The degree of difficulty depends on your arm angle. Bend your elbows so that your lower arms are in line with the ground and then push - you will find this a lot easier as in the 'traditional' riding position you are trying to push both down and away.

The upshot is, as discussed on here before, the ONLY WAY to steer a bike at speeds greater than ~20kph is countersteering. This is why we fall of when we take our trainer wheels off our bikes - as we try to steer in to the corner, which is only applicable for vehicles with greater than 2 wheels.

Zapf - whilst you were practising to countersteer at 100kph....you will be surprised to know, if you have been riding at 100kph up until now, unless you have been doing it in a straight line - you have already been countersteering.

[Skyryder]

Somewhere on this forum there's a link to countersteering. Do a post search on my name and you should be able to find it. Whenever these countersteering threads come up everbodys got a bit of the picture. Here's my bit. Forget about the tek stuff on the saddle. Take the line, lean the bike and gun it. If you do not go on your line or where you mean, then you are out of control and taken the line too fast. Slow down and try again. And forget about the bloody handle bars, they are there to hang onto and nothing else, I say with toungue in cheek and my stomach in my mouth.........at speed.

Skyryder

[moko]

Just relax when you are attempting to conciously countersteer and you will feel it going on. If you are tensed and unhappy you won;t have any preocessing power left over to monitor steering inputs.

Relaxing is a big part of bike control,as Jim says if you`re tense and mentally analysing what you`re doing you`ll tend to over-react and cause yourself all kinds of problems.I heard a girl saying on another forum that she`d been shown how to countersteer but she was heaving the bars around without concentrating on anything else and kept falling off!Thing is with everything from counter-steering,braking,leaning or any other aspect of riding dont walk before you can run.Take it easy and dont try to be a hot-shot straight off and you`ll find your riding becomes almost automatic and you`ll just "do" counter-steering,same as you no doubt change gear e.t.c. without every one being a major thought process.go at a bend thinking "shit,gotta get the counter-steering right" and straight away you`ve tensed up and worse probably not thinking about other aspects of your riding.Experience is a massive part of riding and you aint going to get that in a few days,take your time and this time next year you`ll be amazed that it was ever a problem

[wkid_one]

Don't listen to anyone - get Keith Codes Twist of the Wrist books 1 and 2 and read them - this will give you all the knowledge you will ever need. Then just practise it.

[Bob]

Lot of good words of advice given here. For my part, I work on being relaxed on the bike (nice, loose shoulders), arms are bent so they can work like levers/pistons/shock absorbers, I lean my shoulder into the bend and also look through the bend at at where I want to go.

Leading with your eyes/chin is really important... the bike will follow your eyes - where you look, your shoulders are aimed towards, which in turn makes your arms move in the direction needed to aim everything else that way as well.

If you are able to move your body a bit as well (maybe getting yourself a bit more to the inside of the turn, so your ass is slightly off saddle and towards the side the bike is turning towards), that helps as well - but isn't something I can do all of the time as I have a disc removed from my spine!

Someone mentioned the 'Twist of the Wrist' books by Keith Code. I've not read the books, but I have seen the DVD and Code speaks sense. He breaks things down into segments... making it easier to learn things bit by bit.

Something he said that is well worth thinking about... riding slower to go faster. It might sound odd, but rather than trying to fly at a turn you know well, try taking it slower than you normally would attempt, working more on getting your braking right, getting in the right gear and taking the turn as smoothly as possible. And do it again... and again... and again... until it all comes naturally. Then - and only then - try upping the pace a little.

I always work on the basis of "slow in, fast out"... do all of the above, then gradually up the pace as I go through the bend. I used to keep a constant throttle, but I've found gently opening up as I go through means I am in a position to crack on once the bend reaches its end.

Hope this all makes sense to you! I think it does to me....

[James Deuce]

Another little trick I've found useful on the road is to go through a corner a gear higher than you would think was necessary (two stroke riders should probably ignore that, as I am not willing to pay for fouled spark plugs). Jackie Stewart, F1 World Champ used to do that as it put the engine in the meat of it's torque band and helped keep the suspension stable during the mid corner transition. It also gives you more revs to play with on the exit, and makes the whole process feel slower and smoother.

I also try to keep my eyes level with the horizon, as it helps keep your balance oriented.

[Jamezo]

at < ~20km/h steering takes is done 'normally'

at > ~20km/h countersteering is used

so,so,so,so what happens at the point in the middle use neither? (it's disturbing me...)

[Mongoose]

at < ~20km/h steering takes is done 'normally'

at > ~20km/h countersteering is used

so,so,so,so what happens at the point in the middle use neither? (it's disturbing me...)

You are disturbed

[Wonko]

It's simple, the bike know's which way you want to turn and just turns that way. If yours doesn't know which way to turn, you need to spend more time with it. Take it out to dinner and a movie, buy it a glass of fresh oil. Soon enough she'll know where you want to go before you do.

[Biff]

Lot's of good advice here buddy. Don't worry, It'll all fall into place very soon. But you will spend the rest of your biking life learning. That's the fun of it.

As has already been said, you're probably thinking of a hundred things at once at the moment, it'll all come naturally to you very soon.

What I found useful, which I'll probably get chastised for mentioning here as it may be even more for you to think about, is that when I'm mid corner or about to enter a tight corner and get the feeling that I may need a little more help than just counter steering, I hang a knee out. Not in an attempt to get it down – don’t even think about that for a while, if ever. Don't pop it out suddenly either, but ease it out. You'll find that the extra weight of the knee leaning out into the corner helps. In addition, as said, use your chin, look where you want to go and you'll find that your shoulder dips ever so slightly. Mind does anyway and I find it a great help. I actually over emphasise my shoulders anyway, pushing from them to steer with the palms of my hands.

If you're ever mid corner and don't think you're gonna make it, or that the bikes leaning over too far, the tyres are gonna loose grip (which is highly unlikely) etc, DON'T PANIC, just keep looking where you want to go, not where you’re scared you might go, attempt more counter steer, knee out, chin out, NO BRAKES (this will only make the bike stand up, unless you have a posh dual braking system like mine, but that's another debatable story, especially for the sportier types here - of which I'm not one).

Here's an exercise I learnt on my advanced biking course which helped me enormously:

Pick a set of twisty corners you know. Now ride them at say 20K - 50K slower than you normally would ( watch the speed limits posted on bends, they're not just there simply as eye candy). Now ride the bend, again and again and again etc. Gradually increasing your speed on each consecutive go until you gain confidence and reach somewhere close to the posted speed limit or feel comfortable. Keep doing this time and time again, preferably where the bends are left and right turns.

Above all else - be safe and enjoy.