Ks on the clock?

[shcabbeh]

Hey,

I decided to post this question here because it really does make me feel like a noob.

When it comes to used bikes and the amount of Miles/Kilometres on the clock, what is a good general rule to go by? What I mean is, what is the ideal ratio for buying a used bike between the year and the amount of k's they've done?

I know there's loads of other factors to consider, but I wanna know if there's a rough idea you can get from the amount they list and the year it was made.

Also, how many K's in a year would you guys consider thrashing?

I'm one of those anayltical assholes that likes having a formula for as much as I can and if I can get a general idea from this commonly listed stat I'd be happy.

Cheers!

[xwhatsit]

A lot of guys here say that mileage doesn't really matter, only the general condition of the bike.

I can relate to this, as my bike had low mileage for a 1983 motorcycle -- it had ~50,000kms on it (low considering I've done more than 10,000kms in 6 months, despite the bike being laid up for at least 2 months), yet despite a lick of paint, mechanically it was shite. The worst problems were the worn out engine which didn't last long before dropping a valve seat, necessitating a rebuild, and dodgy electrics with bad earths, which I have slowly but nearly completely fixed (the wiring at least, the actual components have lasted OK).

It's very easy to do a lot of damage in a short number of kilometres, through neglect or just plain abuse. Also, an older bike with low kilometres has often been sitting around for a long time, which does not seem to be a good thing for engine internals.

[vamr]

Depends how many times it's been around the clock and/or had the cluster replaced.
In reality, for older bikes (majority of 250s), you would take the milage figures with a bucket of salt.

[Gremlin]

It all depends how it has been looked after... a bike looked after can be good at 100k, and one that has been totally abused can be screwed at 10k.

I bought a 10yo zx7r beginning of '06, it had 52400 on the clock. Sounds a bit high, but thats only 5200 a year.... and I then did 20+k in a year or so. Services at every 5k, everything done as needed etc. Bike was still good, just not obviously quite as tight as new.

There isn't a formula really... you have to look at each bike individually...

[shcabbeh]

Thanks for the replies. Just as a further question though, why are the kilometres/miles listed as a major feature on ads if there's so many other variables as to distinguishing what kind of condition it's in?

I know bikes are to be treated individually and I do when I check them out, but why do they even bother advertising with the k's if it matters little?

[IamCornholio]

Thanks for the replies. Just as a further question though, why are the kilometres/miles listed as a major feature on ads if there's so many other variables as to distinguishing what kind of condition it's in?

I know bikes are to be treated individually and I do when I check them out, but why do they even bother advertising with the k's if it matters little?

Because they think it will help them get more money...

Actual mileage does not nearly matter as much as the way that a bike was maintained...

For example... My Camaro has fewer than 20k on the clock but... My DSM is the car (that I own and) I consider the 'most reliable' and it has 280k on it...

It all has to do with how well it was built in the beginning and how well it was maintained friend...

[shcabbeh]

Because they think it will help them get more money...

I did have a sneaking suspicion it was a marketing gimmick...

It's so widespread though, among cars and bikes. There's really no more to it than a newbie catcher?

[90s]

Thanks for the replies. Just as a further question though, why are the kilometres/miles listed as a major feature on ads if there's so many other variables as to distinguishing what kind of condition it's in?

I know bikes are to be treated individually and I do when I check them out, but why do they even bother advertising with the k's if it matters little?

Agree that the comments so far are correct, but there is a general rule of thumb that a geniune 140,000k on the clock will = more worn components than 12,000k on the clock. And with two-strokes for example, any high ks and you are definitely thinking there should have been a rebuild at some time earlier.
So the point is service history to prove ks and maintainance being more important than the ks (the condition thing), with the ks giving you a feel for how much it has been riden. Anything over 12,000ks a year is fairly well used so should have a service history of regular services.
So here's your formula ks/6000 = 1 service therefore expect a history of services or if none assume the abuse of missed services if no good qualititive evidence to the contrary.

I bought a bike with 92,000ks on the clock. I could see that it had 7 owners, and each had put around 12,000+ - on the bike and had owned it for around 2 yrs +. I had the last few years service history. It had not been serviced recently and was past due by the current owner so knew it would need a tune. I asked on this forum specifically for info on what to look for on this model, and got great advice from about 5 riders who own ones of similiar ages.
I bought the bike and had put 7,000k on in the last 7 months. It has not put a foot wrong in that time and is coming up to 100,000k. Just had a service and was told everything was in A1.

And the high ks? Made me want to check it over real good!

Last bike I bought was from a younger guy with low ks. I looked that over real good too in case he had been caning it! Caveat emptor, and good luck!

[xwhatsit]

Depends how many times it's been around the clock and/or had the cluster replaced.
In reality, for older bikes (majority of 250s), you would take the milage figures with a bucket of salt.

Well, no, if you're serious about the bike at all you'd do a VIR to check ownership details, whether the police want it etc. It's fairly easy to determine whether it's been around the clock from a VIR -- not foolproof, you could disconnect the speedo in-between WOFs -- but would suit most cases.

I did have a sneaking suspicion it was a marketing gimmick...

It's so widespread though, among cars and bikes. There's really no more to it than a newbie catcher?

I suspect that mileage is more important on cars. My theory is that the majority of cars have low standards of maintenance, oil changes neglected, all that kind of stuff (at least once they come out of warranty, company car situation etc) -- whereas some people treat their bikes like their cars, but many people fastidiously maintain them. So in cars there's a more constant level of maintenance across the board, and less stressed engines too, means that mileage is probably a more accurate indicator of condition. Bikes, on the other hand, you never know what you're going to get.

[Deviant Esq]

I suspect that mileage is more important on cars. My theory is that the majority of cars have low standards of maintenance, oil changes neglected, all that kind of stuff...

Exactamundo, though it does depend on how it's driven as well. Many cars 3 - 4 years old that are imported from Japan have never had their oil changed. People buy cars brand new over there, use them for a few years until they're "getting old", and then just trade them in on a new one. A lot of people never bother to change the oil or in fact anything in the car. When it's getting to the point things really need to be changed they often just get rid of them... and a heap wind up here.

Bikes, on the other hand, you never know what you're going to get.

I think it very much depends on the model of bike along with how many kms it's done and how well it's been maintained. There are bikes around that have done hundreds of thousands of kms problem free without too much work, just regular maintenance and a rider whose riding style is easy on the bike mechanically. It's not uncommon for bikes like RF900s, CBR1100 Blackbirds, GSXFs etc to have what would normally be considered high kms on them, but still going strong due to a low stress motor.

So yeah, depends on the bike as to how well the kms are held. My bike is a 1988 powered by a revvy 250cc single cylider. It's done 93000 kms now, but the motor is great. The age rather than the kms meant a few things were a bit sad - they've been fixed up, bit of paint to freshen her up and she's good as gold.

Bikes with more highly tuned, higher revving engines are more prone to wear... and more prone to having owners giving them the beans, that's what they're designed for. If you don't know a model of bike you're looking at, either ask on KB what common faults are / how many kms are considered high risk, and when you check it out have someone in the know look at it for you. Then there's the common things that show signs of how well the bike has been maintained: state of forks and seals, state of chain and sprockets, state of tyres etc. If it all looks tired chances are higher other maintenance has been neglected too.

Hope this helps!

[SARGE]

my first bike in NZ was a 1984 FJ1100R. I bought it showing 248k on the dial. when it finally gave up the ghost it had clocked 320k. i never had the head off her and never split the cases. far as i know it was never done previously either. It had a full service history when i got it and the previous owner (1) had always changed his Golden Spectro 20w50 at 5000 km and the plugs at 10k

the engine, wheels and frame were sold and the engine is still ticking over in an FJ1100 in Hamilton last i heard. My present FJ has just ticked over 37000 km and gets thrashed regularly but gets treated like a king on service ( although the cases have been split and head has been off.. just upgrade, not failure)


lesson: take care of it, service it and she will last forever.

[IamCornholio]

Well, no, if you're serious about the bike at all you'd do a VIR to check ownership details, whether the police want it etc. It's fairly easy to determine whether it's been around the clock from a VIR -- not foolproof, you could disconnect the speedo in-between WOFs -- but would suit most cases.

I suspect that mileage is more important on cars. My theory is that the majority of cars have low standards of maintenance, oil changes neglected, all that kind of stuff (at least once they come out of warranty, company car situation etc) -- whereas some people treat their bikes like their cars, but many people fastidiously maintain them. So in cars there's a more constant level of maintenance across the board, and less stressed engines too, means that mileage is probably a more accurate indicator of condition. Bikes, on the other hand, you never know what you're going to get.

I only quoted you because the pic near your sig was so darn cool friend...

My Camaro has very low mileage (20k) has only seen the finest of synthetic oils since it was new, has mostly 'clear' synthetic fluids elsewhere as well soas that I can easily SEE when they have become contaminated and such, but...

I have run MANY lbs of nitrous oxide through that baby for sure...

and will continue to do so...

Very cool thread BTW friends. Most excellent reading!

[SARGE]

My Camaro has very low mileage (20k) has only seen the finest of synthetic oils since it was new, has mostly 'clear' synthetic fluids elsewhere as well soas that I can easily SEE when they have become contaminated and such, but...

I have run MANY lbs of nitrous oxide through that baby for sure...

and will continue to do so...

im assuming your Camaro is a 350cid. a big slow revving V8 is a whole different kettle of fish. I used to run an 89 Mustang with a 5.0 top of the redline was at 8000 rpm and happy spot was 5500. I ran giggle gas through her as well

yea .. you can crank the k's on the big lumbering V8s because they dont have to work as hard as a 1000 cc IL4 that revs out at 10,000 rpm.. i had Chev C10 pickup showing the high side of a 1/2 million miles when it died

apples and oranges Cornhole ( with a capitol C)

[IamCornholio]

im assuming your Camaro is a 350cid. a big slow revving V8 is a whole different kettle of fish. I used to run an 89 Mustang with a 5.0 top of the redline was at 8000 rpm and happy spot was 5500. I ran giggle gas through her as well

yea .. you can crank the k's on the big lumbering V8s because they dont have to work as hard as a 1000 cc IL4 that revs out at 10,000 rpm.. i had Chev C10 pickup showing the high side of a 1/2 million miles when it died

apples and oranges Cornhole ( with a capitol C)

Thanks for capitalizing me bro!

Mine is a 2001 model with the 346ci LS-1 engine. Aluminum block, aluminum heads, 6 speed, zexel torsen positrac, dual nozzle - dual stage N2O in a dry type setup that my computer and injectors can handle...

I monitor my AFR best I can soas stuff won't melt right away...

Keep it under a blankie at night for sure...

The 'moral' of this story is simply that mileage is not a very accurate indicator of condition as they are guys like me out there with low mileage, a PILE of maintenance records and such, a spotless vehicle history and...

A possible piston about to try and jump out the side because of all the juice we have been using 'unbeknownst' to the buyer...

One must look closely at each particular engine or ride and inspect it the very best that they can BEFORE the purchase. Simple test and checks can reveal the truth and tell you a lot...

[vifferman]

Kms are irrelevant for some kinds of bikes (like VFRs, one of which has >850k MILES on it!) - it's the condition that's important. But (however), less than 10,000km / year is low mileage (except maybe for a commuter), and over 20k/year is high (except for a sports-tourer). And a high mileage is often more betterer, as highway miles are easier on a bike than commuting miles (fewer stop/starts, fewer gearchanges, less braking, etc.
there's no easy answer - you've just gotta weigh up the whole picture.