Do nakeds slow you down?

[idleidolidyll]

Had the spped of 260kmh verified now on more than two occassion and riding with others on different bikes, unless all the speedos are out on different brands as well.
The GSX1400 turns out 106bhp and 126nm or 96lb's torque. Guys in the UK where there are heaps of 14's get around 250-260kmh out of them tops.
Mines nicely loosened up after a good running in. My K2 would do 253kmh flat out and that was verified on many occassions and would do no more than 230kmh two up.

well what can i say but i'm seriously impressed.

to be honest i never tried to get the absolute top speed out of my xjr1300; at speeds over 200kph it was almost impossible to hang on any longer and the one or 2 times i hit 220+ were just plain scary.

the real bonus IMO was that it'd pull in top gear cleanly from 1400rpm all the way through to whatever speed you wanted to do and, after i tuned it up that extra 25HP, I raised the gearing and could get 350km from a tank.

i had a bit more of a look yesterday and found a dyno comparison between the Honda CB1300, GSX1400 and XJR1300. The dyno charts torque and HP against speed and revs in 1 gear lower than top.
On the XJR that's 4th, on yours 5th.
By the time the bikes reach 220 or so, their torque is way down on peak (std specs) but yes, the Suzuki is pulling more than the other 2.
It looks like the XJR will get 225 in 4th and yours about 240 in 5th. Both have another gear left so speed on dyno indicates maybe 240/250 for the XJR and 270/280 for the Suzuki on standard gearing.
Add wind resistance though and the speeds on the dyno are not achievable. Here's the link: http://www.mcnews.com.au/Testing/Hon...no/Comparo.htm

I recall once riding with an Aprilia Mille and Ducati 999. We were all doing about the same speed and afterwards they both said we were doing 240ish but the XJR speedo had read 220 max. Having had Italian bikes, I'd be more inclined to believe Yamaha's speedo.

For me though, this is all academic. I bought my first KTM to go fast slower and continued that theme with the 950. The top speed of the 640 was 180kph and that just didn't change even when i tweaked an extra 20% more HP from it. The aerodynamic effect was just too much to overcome. The 950 might do 220 but I've never bothered trying. Nowdays I'd rather ride slower down the straights and 'relatively' faster in the twisties.

[Jimmy B]

Yup. It doesn't matter how much power you've got the wind pressure sets the limit. All of which makes me wonder what Yamaha (FZ1?) and BMW (1200S?) think they are doing making uber horse power bikes that nobody can use. Nakeds best use beefy torque not peak horsepower.

* 0-100k 60-140k
Honda CB1100SF X-Eleven 2.9 7.8
Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 2.9 7.9
Kawasaki ZRX 1200 2.9 8.5
Suzuki GSF 1200 Bandit 3.0 9.2
Yamaha XJR 1300 3.1 9.3
Suzuki GSX 1400 3.2 10.0
Cagiva X-Raptor 1000 3.3 8.9
Aprillia RSV Mille Tuone 3.4 9.4
Triumph Speed Triple 950 3.4 9.8
Voxan Roadster 3.4 10.4
Ducati Monster 1000 S 3.6 9.4
Moto Guzzi V11 Scura 3.7 10.8
Buell XB 9R Firebolt 3.9 10.5
Bimota DB 3 Mantra 3.9 12.2
BMW R 1150 R 4.0 9.5
Buell XB 9S Lightning 4.2 11.3

0-100 km/h 60-140 km/h
Suzuki GSX 1300 R Hayabusa 2.7 7.2
Honda CBR 1100 XX Blackbird 2.9 8.2
Ducati 999S 3.0 9.1
Yamaha YZF-R1 3.1 6.8
Suzuki GSX-R 1000 3.1 7.4
Kawasaki ZZ-R 1200 3.1 7.9
BMW K 1200 RS 3.1 9.1
Honda CBR 900 RR Fireblade 3.3 7.7
Kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R 3.4 8.7


* The pull-through from 60 to 140 km/u was, in all cases, tested in HIGHEST GEAR (37.3 mph to 87 mph).
Originally published by: Motorad

Pritch, even the uber horsepower bikes you mentioned make little advantage over some of the more “conservative” nakids. I guess its just a numbers game which make little difference in the real world.

For me I like the grunt because its easy to ride,more relaxing with minimal gear changes to fire our of corner or execute a quick pass. You are right in some respects, the wind blast could be a limiting factor, but in my experience you get used to this pretty quickly, its more the sensation of speed that keeps me slower that a sprots bike and fear of losing my license

[idleidolidyll]

Jimmy B

Your charts are interesting but since they are probably based on standard gearing, not specifically an absolute guide.

My KTM for instance, has a 16t front sprocket rather than the 17 that comes standard: it pulls way faster now than the 0-60 in the specs.

Common modification on Ducati 900ss was to do much the same and 'sacrifice' some top end (that was never used anyway) for better acceleration. That probably applies to many bikes on NZ roads.

IMO the same applies re sport bikes versus nakeds. Sport bike std gearing is usually set up for max top speed while nakeds are generally for mid range and better pulling power lower down.

Obviously then, changing the gearing on a sport bike like the R1 to give it say 240kph top speed (still practically irrelevant on NZ roads), would give it way quicker acceleration as long as you are able to keep the front wheel in front of the rear.

But yes, I'm more interested in torque and driveability than sheer horsepower. i know that as long as the bike handles well, a torqey bike makes a better road bike.

[Jimmy B]

'Morning III,

A few guys on the X11 forum, believe it or not it does exist, have done just what you mentioned with sprockets and it becomes a control issue as you stated with sportsbikes until about 4th gear. I havent considered it cause I need a tankslapper/highside like a hole in the head. One nutter has got his X to 150rwhp, thats right rwhp, with torque to match but Im not convinced he has really improved the bike, rather has just made it slightly mental and less enjoyable to ride.

I guess where I was at is despite wide range of output, the times from fastest to slowest are really the blink of an eye. Quite interesting really. And yes I believe the charts are standard bikes out of the box.

[idleidolidyll]

Zaoxiang hao Jimmy B

Yes, on some bikes, like my example the R1, lowering the final gear ratio by changing sprockets WOULD turn them into almost uncontrollable pieces of lunacy.

However, on other bikes with far less horsepower and torque, a sensible gearing change will make them competitive with, or better than, many std sport bikes on the road.
Racers gear their bikes to suit the track they are riding and road riders would benefit also by gearing their bikes to suit their riding style and the roads they ride. Sometimes that'd mean gearing up and other times gearing down (gear down for acceleration and up for fuel economy and low revs cruising).
My 55HP KTM 640 for instance, was geared to do about 175kph top speed and that gave it acceleration that often embarassed sport bikes, particularly coming out of a corner when the single could get on the power earlier taking better advantage of that gearing.
With the gearing change on my current KTM 950, I don't know what it's top speed would be but its acceleration is excellent and bordering on manic with regard to keeping the front wheel on the ground. Going even lower though would be worthless as 1st gear might become redundant and fuel economy would suffer greatly.
In std spec the 950 KTM Supermoto is overgeared: it won't pull max revs in top gear. That makes it very sensible to gear it down. It may even be faster now in top speed but for me that's not even relevant as I'm not interested in doing 200kph+.
In addition I run the suspension quite soft. With NZ's roads being the minefield of potholes and subsidences they are, I like to have all 9" of travel available and I take advantage of that to use lines that most sport bikes just can't use (because of the road surface). Potholes and many other road dangers are obviated by the longer travel and the fact that the KTM comes std with top quality White Power forks and rear shock.
In the same theme, I have had Gaudenz Gisler rework my wifes Buell Blast suspension completely. He gave both ends more travel and fitted his own 'gold valves' in the forks and air valve in the rear shock. Wifey is well pleased.
The downside of the soft, long travel suspension is that it seems less stable on fast sweepers. That's not too relevant though since these make up such a small part of my riding.

The upshot? Take a standard naked bike, gear it for your favourite roads, set up the riding position well, tune the motor for efficiency and set up the suspension to suit riding style and road condition: and for 99% of the time, you have a better road bike than almost any sport bike.

[Jimmy B]

Zaoxiang hao Jimmy B


The upshot? Take a standard naked bike, gear it for your favourite roads, set up the riding position well, tune the motor for efficiency and set up the suspension to suit riding style and road condition: and for 99% of the time, you have a better road bike than almost any sport bike.

Hey III where you at? China?

A lot of great points in that post and in particular the one above, which probably applies equally to any bike. Close second was the comment about Mrs III being most pleased, you are a wise man

[idleidolidyll]

Hey III where you at? China?

A lot of great points in that post and in particular the one above, which probably applies equally to any bike. Close second was the comment about Mrs III being most pleased, you are a wise man

Nah, didn't go to China, I've got a cold and it wouldn't have been wise. Beijing this time of year is about -8 degrees

Might end up working there for a few years though and that would pose a real motorcycling problem

[Jimmy B]

Nah, didn't go to China, I've got a cold and it wouldn't have been wise. Beijing this time of year is about -8 degrees

Might end up working there for a few years though and that would pose a real motorcycling problem

Yep and yep to that, although there are worse places to work I guess.

Hadn't heard of the Buell Blast before, just googled it up, looks like a great piece of kit, I think I prefer it to the baby Monster. Bit surprising we dont see more of both around.

[Big Dave]

The upshot? Take a standard naked bike, gear it for your favourite roads, set up the riding position well, tune the motor for efficiency and set up the suspension to suit riding style and road condition: and for 99% of the time, you have a better road bike than almost any sport bike.

Oh? You mean exactly what I have been harping on about on here and elsewhere for the last 3 years???

Search 'Dinosaurs'.

[idleidolidyll]

Yep and yep to that, although there are worse places to work I guess.

Hadn't heard of the Buell Blast before, just googled it up, looks like a great piece of kit, I think I prefer it to the baby Monster. Bit surprising we dont see more of both around.

The Blast is a fine bike for those like my wife who have full licences but are ummm, 'vertically challenged'.

It comes with either a low or std seat and at 5'1, she likes the low seat around town but the high seat on long trips. The bike is not powerful; we tweaked it from 26BHP rear wheel to about 35BHP but it does make good torque and it sounds great (wifey loves that Vance and Hines muffler). Top spoeed is about 160kph and that's more than enough for her.

A few tuning shops in the US make hot up kits and boring to 600cc with 50-60HP is not beyond the pale.

Like most Buells nowdays the bodywork is plastic and bolt on. Wifey has both the red and the black set.

Eric Buell says that this is his second best handling bike after the XB's.

She also has a Ducati 350 desmo from 1974 and one day it will even go again

There are few options for her really. Being vertically challenged seems to restrict one to a 'cruiser' or a learner bike with only a few exceptions. The new Kwaka ER6 is one that'd probably be a fine ride for her but she's even more 'anti japper' than i am ;-)

[idleidolidyll]

Oh? You mean exactly what I have been harping on about on here and elsewhere for the last 3 years???

Search 'Dinosaurs'.

sure Dave but you KNOW i've been a convert for a very long time. Hell, you've ridden with me and know what bikes I've had at least since 2003

NZ STILL has an enourmous quantity of unsealed roads where most sport bikes dare not travel and that's apart from the sad state of the sealed roads.