I'm not happy with Helen!

[idleidolidyll]

gotta go friends

beer o'clock

i'll pick this up later; it's been refreshing to have a political discussion without real venom

[MisterD]

i agree, it's not missing but it's often not visible

i call it the propaganda axis

Ok, I'll bite. Care to expand on that?

[idleidolidyll]

Ok, I'll bite. Care to expand on that?

ask me later, that was pretty much a flippant line but it does have some depth

it really is beer o'clock, a mate has just phoned and on his way with the liqid

wouldn't want to look like a computer nerd now would i

later MisterD, so long and thanks for all the fish

[Mr Merde]

......... I have a very large bone to pick with Uncle Helen.

I really hope not, she mightnt appreciate the length or girth.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok, I'll bite. Care to expand on that?

OK, briefly

it refers to the intention of politicians to deceive and make you vote in their favour even though your true philosophy might be in contrast

often the power of money and it's ability to publicise makes that much difference

MisterD, I'm not attacking you personally on this, it's just how I see things.

of course your replies and those of lias are useful and add balance

[MisterD]

OK, briefly

it refers to the intention of politicians to deceive and make you vote in their favour even though your true philosophy might be in contrast

often the power of money and it's ability to publicise makes that much difference

MisterD, I'm not attacking you personally on this, it's just how I see things.

of course your replies and those of lias are useful and add balance

Looking forward to picking up on this later, I think there's probably something in what you are saying (speaking as someone who's profession is sales).

I think though that there has to be a true third dimension to this, otherwise the weighting given views from either side of the traditional L-R spectrum is what ultimately affects where that one averaged point comes out.

Enjoy the beer.

[badlieutenant]

I remember when labour got in and I was going to give my old employer a hard time (he been a staunch nationalist). When I did, he laughed and said it didnt worry him because he has always been better off financially under labour in the past.
I can appreciate national, but dont trust them, Labour on the other hand at seem to have the concerns of people in general as a focus, weather they get it right or not at least its a goal I can live with.
I would probably listen to the complaining if the first post sounded less like a bitch and tried adding something that labour had done right, sort of a balanced view type of thing.

[Ixion]

I'm very slightly left on the left/right axis(between NZ first & Maori), but i'm up past Destiny on the authoritarian/libertarian axis.

Anarchist!

-8.23 economics
+5.45 authortarian

Right up with Comrade Stalin


I think the Z axis reflects one's position on a globalist-localisation scale.

Feudalism, for instance was highly authoritarian. But also be localised, non global. The mediaval church was authoritarian, and global. Hence the disagreements. The Greens are not really very anarchistic., But they are highly globalist. The WestCoasters are anarchistic (even more so than the Greens). But highly localised.

So they will never agree. The West Coasters say "Cutting down these trees is good . It will create local jobs. We should have the right to use our local resources for local benefit." The Greens say " No no, cutting down those trees will contribute to global warming and cause polar bears to go extinct. Resources, wherever they may be, must be used for global benefit". Both left wing. Both somewhat anarchist . But totally differing on the global vs local scale.

This contrast is becoming more and more important, and is not reflected in the (now probably outdated) two axis political model. Most Kiwis are fairly local oriented. Comes with being on an island.

[MisterD]

I think the Z axis reflects one's position on a globalist-localisation scale.

Interesting, I was thinking along the lines of practical v idealistic...one of my bugbears with Labour type policies is the impracticality and waste associated with some of their idealistic policies.

Case in point: Tax credits, a nice idealistic method of wealth re-distribution which has the typical Labour drawback of requiring the employment of one set of people to take money off us, and another set to give it back.

[Flatcap]

Interesting, I was thinking along the lines of practical v idealistic...one of my bugbears with Labour type policies is the impracticality and waste associated with some of their idealistic policies.

Case in point: Tax credits, a nice idealistic method of wealth re-distribution which has the typical Labour drawback of requiring the employment of one set of people to take money off us, and another set to give it back.

This is a great work for the dole scheme. I for one enjoy the fact that these "Public Servants" get to play with my money before handing it on to beneficiaries.

Better they pay for their own LCD TV with my money rather than nick mine directly

[Flatcap]

National and ACT woiuld have us mimic the USA: a fascist nation in all but name controlled completely by corporate backhanders and the military

ALL parties are flawed but at least Labour is centrist rather than nationalist right wing warmongers.

You say that as if it is a bad thing - I for one hope the Yanks will come and save us when Indonesia invades

[paturoa]

I would probably listen to the complaining if the first post sounded less like a bitch and tried adding something that labour had done right, sort of a balanced view type of thing.

It was only meant as a bitch.

I see a lot of stuff here that I do not want the government to do.

I see too many fundamentals, that I IMHO, have got worse in the last ~8 years ......
....the role of governments (nanny state), commerce, education, health, transport, utilities, personal freedom, crime / law and order, TAX, & a bunch of dumb shit stuff.

I suspect that the political compass thing isn't tuned very well as I was just in the bottom left quadrant, yet I am not happy about the list of stuff in the first post?

And what really scares me is what happens next year. I don't see clear signals / policy statements from any of the other "options" that convinces me that these things will start improving.....

[smoky]

I've lived & worked in a few countries, came back to NZ 3 years ago - to a different NZ, a better NZ.
If you look around at the successful governments in the world, they all have the same 'keesington' (I think that’s how you spell it) economic model; They say; What business does a government have running phone companies, railways, coal mines, schools, hospitals and so on. So they privatise and sell.
They manage inflation via interest rates, while encouraging productivity.
Tax and save until there’s a down turn, then increase social spending in a down turn.

Socialist, democratic, rightwing, leftwing - whatever, they are all following the same idea's as far as I can see.
While Labour hasn't sold hospitals or schools or social housing - they will eventually - they are all being groomed and set up for it. The process and pace they are following is the difference between Labour and National;
National would just create a fictional competition and sell them off to their mates at reduced prices – never mind the immediate consequences, let the dependants die - it'll sort it's self out with natural economic balances sooner or later.
Labour is actively looking for partners like NGO's and Iwi groups - and funding their growth and capability to take over the provision of social services like schools, hospital and social housing - so it can ultimately pull out of providing those services.
The problem is as they invest in these entities it’s pushing up government spending – that’s contributing to inflation, house prices are only one pressure, government spending is the biggest pressure.

But what do I know

[davereid]

The Greens say " No no, cutting down those trees will contribute to global warming and cause polar bears to go extinct."

Yep, the Greens DO say that.

A tree grows, absorbing carbon. Then it dies, and lies in the litter on the forest floor, releasing all the carbon as it decays.

ie Forests are not carbon sinks, they are carbon neutral.

To make a forest work as a carbon sink, you have to cut all the trees down, and put then somewhere where they wont rot. (Not in a leaky house.) Then plant new trees.

[Brett]

There are so many angry things I want to say about Helen, but I gotta scoot out the door for a ride...so I will leave with only one...
I think it was $13,000,000 that got sent to fund OVERSEAS abortion. We cant even F#ucking look after our own kids, yet we are funding the murder of them overseas? CYFS have not got enough resources and the result is that babies, yes babies are stuck with druggie mothers who, when hey cry, get fed P to keep them quiet cause the mother is too high to think straight.

Dont even get me started on the anti-smacking bill. I really really detest having Helen lead out country with her band of miscreants.