White crosses on the side of the road

[Hitcher]

After reading the front page of this morning's Dominion Post, I have been unable to restrain a hobby horse and it has set out for a bit of a canter, nay (neigh?) gallop.

To summarise the story, some person or persons unknown removed some white crosses from the side of Wellington's "killer highway". A grieving mother is distraught because of this act of despicable and uncompassionate barbarism.

At this point the hobby horse bolts...

1. Her son didn't die at the scene of the now missing cross. He died two days later in hospital. Put the white cross up there. St Johns would be really pissed off if the families of people who died in ambulances wanted to erect white crosses at the scene of death. Transit would be annoyed if the families of people who died in the middle of a road wanted to erect crosses there. Etc.

2. Was her son a Christian? If not, leave the cross thing alone. It is (or should be) a symbol of resurrection, not of random death.

3. If Transit realigns or replaces a stretch of road where there are white crosses, what happens to the crosses?

4. I am particularly incensed by what has, in recent years, become a "white cross industry". Some of these are more than crosses, they're shrines! And they are distracting and a blot on the landscape.

5. New Zealanders are accepting of road deaths. Bunging white crosses on the side of the road neither serves as a warning or a reminder. It is an act of self-indulgent grief.

The point of this post isn't to denigrate people's sense of loss of a close friend or family member, or to belittle road deaths. It is about people being sensible as to how they grieve.

[Sniper]

I agree with Hitcher. Although they are a tribute to the person who died, they are more a nuisanse to drivers and tourists who sometime steal the flowers around a cross too.

[sAsLEX]

5. New Zealanders are accepting of road deaths. Bunging white crosses on the side of the road neither serves as a warning or a reminder. It is an act of self-indulgent grief.

I find they are often a Darwinian reminder with straight stretches of road still littered with them, see the and often wonder justhow someone managed to off themselves in that spot.

[Ixion]

I disagree. I find the presence of the crosses a sobering reminder, and a timely call to review my riding. and, usually, slow down. And when I see a stretch with a number of them, I *really* start taking care.

As to the use of the cross - it is a symbol of the hope of redemption. Not confined to Christians. Christ died for *all* men and if the symbol of His sacrifice brings comfort to the grieving - why then, that is what it is intended to do.

As for the place- maybe they did not die there (though often they did), but that is (presumably) where the fatal accident took place, and the effective end of their lives.

What harm do they do? And, for that matter, what is wrong with shrines?

[Paul in NZ]

Possibly this is a thread that needs to be merged into the Metal illness in NZ thread?

Is this a sign of the times that we can't seem to get over the death of a loved one? We indulge in all this pain and sorrow and never really get a handle on it. I know it hurts but going on and on about it and no one ever having the guts these days to say, hang about, thats 5 years ago mate? Build a bridge already! In some cases, those crosses are the markers for some monumental errors on behalf of the person remembered.

I'm a bloody big softie myself! I cry at funerals etc etc but if I screw up on the road I don't want a little white cross to remind everyone what a nong I was.

Jeeze, we are getting pretty introspective and weak as a civilisation.

[Hitcher]

I find they are often a Darwinian reminder with straight stretches of road still littered with them, see the and often wonder justhow someone managed to off themselves in that spot.

On the subject of Darwinian reminders (without wanting to prematurely liberate another hobby horse), I have two words: Piha Rescue...

[Paul in NZ]

I disagree. I find the presence of the crosses a sobering reminder, and a timely call to review my riding. and, usually, slow down. And when I see a stretch with a number of them, I *really* start taking care.

As to the use of the cross - it is a symbol of the hope of redemption. Not confined to Christians. Christ died for *all* men and if the symbol of His sacrifice brings comfort to the grieving - why then, that is what it is intended to do.

As for the place- maybe they did not die there (though often they did), but that is (presumably) where the fatal accident took place, and the effective end of their lives.

What harm do they do? And, for that matter, what is wrong with shrines?

I think an official and maintained sign re an accident area, 10 deaths this year might be better. The crosses and just odd and don't really slow me down. half the time i think, how the hell did you manage to crash there?

edit - appologies to anyone thats offended by this! I know it hurts when you loose a loved one, been there done that but... Does the white cross thing really work?

[Mental Trousers]

Bit harsh there Hitcher. People grieve in different ways. The place that the person died is often a focus for those that knew them. And also as time goes by any reminders of a person are slowly erased. Other than a few photos in an album and a headstone a cross on the side of the road may be the only thing left to remember someone by. Even after 10 years I still stop at the side of the road where a very close friend died and go visit the cross there as I can't visit her grave (it's 3 hours ride away). And it's nice to see that others have been out there and left things so she isn't forgotten.

[sAsLEX]

On the subject of Darwinian reminders (without wanting to prematurely liberate another hobby horse), I have two words: Piha Rescue...

lol I quite like that show but it amazes me how stupid people can be on what is an Island nation when it comes to entering the ocean.

[Colapop]

The crosses although a sometimes timely reminder of the dangers of road travel are an unnessessary and unwelcome addition to the roadside. While I do not begrudge the greivers right to grieve I do not see that putting croses and shrines up at the accident achieves anything for the rest of us. They are a distraction to good driving at best, at worst a danger and an eyesore. I have heard (only anecdotally) that people stopping at these places, to tend these quasi-graves, actually caused accidents by the placement of their own vehicles.

Having dealt with PCC and Transit during recent re-alignments I can inform you all that the crosses that are left on the roadside are considered rubbish and removed after a period of time by contractors.

[Marknz]

I agree that these crosses tend to be a distraction more than anything else, and that is the last thing we need on the road, especially as motorcyclists.

It is my own personal view that two or three well decorated crosses out in the Wairarapa may well have cost the life of one of our young fellas last year ( or maybe it was the year before?). I don't remember his name, but the young fella that was riding with Jimbo and lost his life might have seen those crosses on the left side of the road and maybe taking too long a peek... he was a good church boy so may have been paying respects in his own way... but that sincere act "may" have been what caused him to drift into the other lane.

Who knows, I'm not a crash scene investigator, but that was my opinion having been out and surveyed the crash site while paying my own respects to him.

Food for thought?

And just incase any of you consider this post denegrating of the young fellas name/memory, that is not my intention. It is simply to add value to the original post and no ill intent is meant.

[sAsLEX]

This thread reminded me of an incident on the Ngarea overbridge in south Taranaki, the day before a car had crashed into it and burst into flames with the obvious result. Now this bride is a dangerous mother fuckin thing single lane sharp turn in a 80 zone I think.

Anyways the next day a unmarked cop car, detective from the looks, pulls over and stops without indicating halfway along the bridge with what looked like family in the car and in the process nearly caused another significant pile up.

My point? Should another persons greiving end up causing more death is that fair? As pointed out by some above the crosses and people on the road side can be a distraction to drivers who stuggle to keep their vehicles on the road with out it.

[Hitcher]

This thread reminded me of an incident on the Ngarea overbridge in south Taranaki

Ngaere (halfway between Stratford and Eltham, pronounced "nyree" by the locals). This railbridge of death has been replaced with a dirty great culvert.

[Motu]

The crosses don't do much for me other than get my mind trying to recreat a fatal crash in an unlikely spot.The big yellow signs with a smiley face and ''No Road Deaths in Rodney County this Month''...then later a sad face with the number of deaths is a bigger reminder and incentive to take it easy for me.

There certainly seems to be a preoccupation with grieving,it's almost like those ''other culture'' funerals where you get cred for how much wailing and screaming you do.Like the boi racer cars and the RIP signs and the rear window cover in some script.I wear black....because it doesn't show the dirt....

[u4ea]

umm with no disrepect to the dead or greiving,these croosses tell me of carnage and its not nice.it does mke the mind wander when on the road.wouldn t it be better to remember our dear ones in a more serene place??