ANZAC Day.

[Manxman]

'I honour the courage and leadership of Haane Manahi, one of Te Arawa's greatest sons.

Shortly after the outbreak of the Second World War, Haane Manahi joined the 28th (Maori) Battalion. He travelled far from Ohinemutu, the village of his birth, to fight in lands far from New Zealand. Lance Sergeant Manahi fought in Greece, Crete, and North Africa. He played a pivotal role in the 1943 attack on Takrouna in Tunisia.'

Here, here. This man was almost the textbook definition of hero and has finally been duly recognised. How many of today's 'enlightened' generation would do this?

Compare and contrast with a banner I saw on TV tonight, saying that "Conscientious objectors are the real heroes"...WTF...immature and ill-informed thought at best.

[Grahameeboy]

Devonport lost 2.5% of it's male population in the War.........makes you think.

[SARGE]

Here, here. This man was almost the textbook definition of hero and has finally been duly recognised. How many of today's 'enlightened' generation would do this?

Compare and contrast with a banner I saw on TV tonight, saying that "Conscientious objectors are the real heroes"...WTF...immature and ill-informed thought at best.

"Conscientious objectors" back in MY day were handed a medical kit and sent to work with the Recon boys.. since they didnt want to take a life .. they made the perfect Medics for the front line units ..

[nudemetalz]

totally agree, and like I said in the "other thread", a simple 7.62 injection would solve their "medical conditions"......

[klingon]

I always cry..The Last Post gets me every time!

Me too, yungatart, works every time. I can't help it.

when is the last time you ( generalizing) have actually stopped at a rest home or at an RSA and just sat and talked to a Vet..
...
at any time,your country will ask you to lay down your life to protect the ones who are at home waving signs AGAINST what you are doing..

Thank a Vet every day.. its because of them that you are here today and able to express your opinion.

Sarge, I do both. Often. I thank those, like my father, who fought in terrible wars. And I support my father in his banner-waving (metaphorical and real) when he pleads for New Zealand to stay out of unjust wars.

Not all wars are justified, not all are unjustified. Which is which? Everyone's opinion will be different and I know we will never agree.

But please don't imply that by waving signs to protest against war, that we are showing any kind of disrespect for the soldiers. The soldiers didn't make the decision to go to war. The politicians did.

My dad was an infantryman, a navy signalsman, a pilot and a parachutist. He was the bravest of the brave. And for him to stand up in his old age and protest against war has taken incredible courage. I'm as proud of him for that as I am for all the other bravery he has shown in his life.

Courage takes many forms. The courage to stand up for your beliefs in the face of overwhelming pressure is one of the rarest and greatest.

[Wasp27]

thanks Fizzer .. i was just trying to make a point that ANZAC day has become merely a " Day off" for most Kiwi's and has lost alot of its meaning to the latest generation that has not had to go to war thanks to your forefather's sacrifices.

What moved me the most at this mornings Dawn Service was the number of young folk in attendance....almost half I would think were under the age of twenty and a large number of primary school children. Overall I think there was more people there today than in previous years. Even the youngest there showed a keen interest in the procedings and the speeches this year included a very moving account from the Head Boy of Napier Boys High School (17 years old) about his Grandad and how he was killed in battle...... bugger, the screens gone blurry just thinking about it. My 2 grandsons (9 & 6 years old) were telling me all about the Anzacs and the sacrifice that they made so we could be free. Appears their respective teachers have schooled them up in the meaning of 'Anzac' and the sacrifices those brave men & women made in defence of our freedom. So take heart...I think the meaning of Anzac Day will remain in the hearts and minds of our young folk....at least in the foreseeable future.

[Ixion]

How is thier discussion not for this thread? It is relevent to the original topic, and not in any way derogitory.

We should remember those who faught, but we will all have a different perspective on war.

I'm watching it. Those who fought, and died, did so because it was their duty. Other men see their duty in different ways. Respect their sacrifice be that what it may. Ultimately it doesn't matter WHAT brave men die for. Conscientious objectors, communists, democrats, Kiwis, Yanks, Germans Japs, whatever, they're all men (and women, why does no one remember the women?) doing what they see as their duty.

I've known, spoken with, a lot of vets (latest today, Sarge) .None glorified war. Most hated it . Almost without exception every returned serviceman I've known has said that they would do anything to prevent young men having to go through what they did. And that if they had to do it again they would. Because it was their duty.

Respect those who fought.On all sides. And those who fought a more internal struggle. If I see something that's not respectful, I'll pull it.So far I haven't .

[Colapop]

Thanks Ixion. I just wanted it to remain on track and respectful was all.

[SARGE]

I'm watching it. Those who fought, and died, did so because it was their duty. Other men see their duty in different ways. Respect their sacrifice be that what it may. Ultimately it doesn't matter WHAT brave men die for. Conscientious objectors, communists, democrats, Kiwis, Yanks, Germans Japs, whatever, they're all men (and women, why does no one remember the women?) doing what they see as their duty.

I've known, spoken with, a lot of vets (latest today, Sarge) .None glorified war. Most hated it . Almost without exception every returned serviceman I've known has said that they would do anything to prevent young men having to go through what they did. And that if they had to do it again they would. Because it was their duty.

Respect those who fought.On all sides. And those who fought a more internal struggle. If I see something that's not respectful, I'll pull it.So far I haven't .

thanks X..


not only the men ( And women) who died.. but those who are affected in other ways for the rest of thier life .. My dad.. a Vietnam Vet, has suffered from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) for decades. I, Myself , have been diagnosed with it also due to what I witnessed in Beirut and Grenada..

War ain't pretty..no matter how "small " the battle people are affected by the experience for life .. I don't know one Vet who enjoyed himself. conversely.. i don't know one vet who would shirk his responsibility and refuse to do it again. *( i am not saying that there ARE none .. I personally don't know any)

when you are a 19 year old kid and you have to live through something like that.. listening to your buddy scream, or watching his head turn into a red mist, or pulling him out from under a collapsed building and having to make more than one trip to get all of him.. sitting in a trench while the rounds wizz past your ear and hearing yourself scream in fear.. it changes you .. some people withdraw .. some go the other direction ( myself included) some unplug from reality and sit on the bed rocking back and forth for the rest of their lives..

as I mentioned .. I live with PTSD every day. I deal with nightmares..i see every one of my friends and enemies clearly in my mind to this day..a thousand sets of eyes are etched in my memory for the rest of my life.. I am on guard 24/7 when i don't need to be.. I am always assessing threats..Movie theaters, Grocery Stores.. Parks ..a loud noise sends me out of my skin... I am aggressive and sharp with people when there is no reason...

no one has a PTSD memorial though .. no one remembers the walking dead


just my .02 +GST ..

[nudemetalz]

That was a very moving post, Sarge.
Thank you for sharing.

[Macktheknife]

I think often of the sacrifices made and the multitude of lives both lost and changed forever, I honour the memory of those who have given their all and those who are still willing to do so. Lest we forget.

[Biff]

...So far I haven't .

I have.

Keep it civilised please troops.

At ease.

[ManDownUnder]

...no one remembers the walking dead...

I disagree - some of us do. You know me well enough to hear when I'm speaking the plain truth. Here it is, laid bare as thanks.

The closest I've ever been to battle was talking to a guy that's been there. The level of appreciation for what he's been through went from nearly dormant to very much alive and kicking in the space of a coffee or two.

On ANZAC day I was able to tell my kids that I know a real soldier - someone that's ben there and done that... and someone that they should get to kow any respect for the things they will learn about in time. I'd just want to introduce my kids to him... should he ever want to come for a beer.

He's a gruff old bastard from time to time, and has earned the right to be. He's got the perfect face for radio, and the perfect past to command respect.

SARGE - I am reluctant to single you out, because I know you really are one of many, and indeed arguably one of the lucky ones. I know you're not alone in this - you're just the one I know best. What's more my kids, and many others need to hear your story. They may not want to, but sure as hell need.

[Squeak the Rat]

I read the "we will remember them" verse at my grandfathers funeral. That was a hard thing to do, and now anzac day has even more meaning for me.

Rock on you old bastards.

They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

[mstriumph]

i have no wish to offend - i know that rememberance services are a comfort to many and i respect the views of those who have posted here -

but it makes me despair
about the cynicism of many attending in the 'front row of the podium' seats - the politicians (who are the clones of their predecessors who sent men and women away to die and be maimed mentally and physically for some political end or another, cloaking it in 'duty' 'adventure' 'honour' and anything else likely to sell the concept to a gulible youth) for whom the 'respect' is a yearly-enacted one hour farce and the 'tears' are of the crocodile variety.

and about the trash treatment dispensed to veterans by an uncaring system that lauded them when they went and treated them like outcasts when they returned, broken.

I come from a long line of warfare - have heard the stories, seen at first hand the ongoing havoc the experience has wrought on some of those that came back - and their loved ones ........ and the overwhelming loss to the families of those that didn't make it home.

In strange towns i never fail to stop and read the names of the fallen on war memorials and honour the sacrifice made .. and send out a silent wish for the good health and happiness of those that survived ....

but i have no respect for the sanctimonious, unfeeling, pompous, arrogant bastards that sent them nor wish to be in their proximity, not even once a year....

We MUST remember -
but everything
not least that the vast majority of those that sent men and women away to fight would probably have found another solution if they had had to go themselves ....