Am I being paranoid ?

[spudchucka]

As discussed in previous threads, reckless driving amounts to dangerous driving with intent. That is to say the person knows the consequences but deliberately drives in that manner. An example would be intentionaly ramming another vehicle to cause it to crash or playing chicken with oncoming vehicles when police are pursuing in an attempt to cause the police to abandon.

[FROSTY:Me]

But isn't racing by its very definition dangerous driving with intent.
-Example being stockcars. There is no question they intend to do harm to each others cars.
For that matter certain (ahem) members of KB and their go kart driving--aye logan and chris
Spud--ya see what I'm getting at -I can see what the law is aimed at
BUT -again scenario (not one I want to contemplate)
Me and another rider are side by side going into the hairpin at pukie.
I have the inside line BUT its just not gonna happen -to tight a line
I slide -hit the other rider, he flies off and boom hes dead on the armco.
His mum is upset and decides she wants me prosecuted-
Under the proposed law I can be.
I've seen that senario happen heaps of times (not fatal thank gosh)

[spudchucka]

But isn't racing by its very definition dangerous driving with intent.

I don't see it that way at all. I think I said something earlier about implied consent, which applies to motor racing as it does to contact sports. However if a racer went crazy and deliberately started running over track marshals then he should certainly face charges, don't you think?

[Motu]

I once bowled over an observer at a trial - I was picking my way towards him,and he kept moving away...so I kept my eye on him,as he moved further away I still aimed at him - a classic case of target steering.When I finally mowed him down he was really pissed off,reckoned he had a crook back and I'd wrecked it again - prick marked me down as a 5 everytime I went through his section from then on.So now he could do me for careless use of a motor vehicle,fair enough,but then he agreed to be an observer knowing there was a very slim chance it could be dangerous - he just didn't count on a dickhead like me coming along.

[spudchucka]

As with all new laws there will be a period of testing the boundries of the new legislation before the interpretation of the courts is fully known.

[Skyryder]

The Christchurch Press 1/9/04 has headlines on this very subject.
Go to http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepres...9a6009,00.html

Apart from the driving without a license and leaving the scene etc seems like this guy will be charged causing death. I personally have a bit of a problem with this. The deceased was an active participent in the race. And yet the boy is being charged with causing her death. Early days on this but something here just does not fit.

Skyryder

[dangerous]

The Christchurch Press 1/9/04 has headlines on this very subject.
Go to http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepres...9a6009,00.html

Apart from the driving without a license and leaving the scene etc seems like this guy will be charged causing death. I personally have a bit of a problem with this. The deceased was an active participent in the race. And yet the boy is being charged with causing her death. Early days on this but something here just does not fit.

Skyryder

And so Reid should be done and done bloody well
Why do I think this...... because if he chose to obay the rooad code (not race) then the death and other very sad injories would NOT of happened, simple.
He racer #1 gets of lightly she racer #2 gets the worse end of the deal.... shes dead

[Skyryder]

OK Dangerouse fair enough. But the girl was an active participent. The fact that she decided to race was her decision. Not withstanding that Reid was a disqualified driver and left the scene of an accident I am yet to be convinced that his actions were in anyway the cause of her death. She was the one who lost control. I may yet still be convinced that he (Reid )was at fault but I think this needs thinking through. Suppose it was a motorcyle the girl raced against. None of us have much time for cagers who drive dangerously and I may be the odd man out here but I am open to persuasion. Let's put this in the context that we can all understand. I am at a set of lights minding my own buisiness when a boy racer pulls up, tits the engine, so I thinks to myself, another wanker. The lights turn green I gun it and the boy racer spins out of control and kills somebody. Should I be charged with causing death. Under the new laws I would be. Would I be found guilty Now that's an interesting question that the courts will decide. This case has some serious implications for us all. The fact that Reid is commonly known as a boy racer should not allow us to jump to predetermined conclusions.

Skyryder

[dangerous]

But the girl was an active participent.

And look were it got her...... He got of lightly, becos the shoe could of been on the other foot, then who do ya reckon is guility?

It's the 4x4 thing that gets me......... how the hell am I ment to cross a river, climb a steep muddy hill and not do it dangerously, another words its dangerous to cross a river anything could happen same goes for the hill climb. If I was to drown the passanger or role and kill a passanger (due to an unforseen suition) then do I get done for dangerous driving/man sloughter???

[Lou Girardin]

It sounds like there's a variation of the 'if you've done nothing wrong there's nothing to worry about' principle going on here.
Apparently we can give the Police these new powers safe in the knowledge that they'll use them wisely and with discretion.
Except, we should ask Astrid Anderson; organiser of 'Le Race' or ask the organisers of the Queenstown street race where two spectators were killed. All were prosecuted. The Police work on a 'prosecute and let the courts decide' principle'. (Unless you're the PM or husband of a Judge, that is) Now you may well win in court, but it's a phyrric victory. The costs of winning will ruin most people.
The Police can't use the powers they've got in a sensible manner, why would we want to give them more?
And, of course they won't stake out areas frequented by 4WD's. They don't hide in motorway shrubbery or have speed blitz's where there hasn't been a fatal in years either.
Give them the right to enter your land at will and they'll be sniffing in your knickers drawers next.

[FROSTY:Me]

Latest development--This ammendment was closed to all submissions last friday.
As a result of possible ramifications for Racers there have been several late submissions which are beiing concidered.
The law may be modified to exclude those involved in closed road /circuit
racing given it is an aproved and legal event --eg a road race.

[MD]

And look were it got her...... He got of lightly, becos the shoe could of been on the other foot, then who do ya reckon is guility?

It's the 4x4 thing that gets me......... how the hell am I ment to cross a river, climb a steep muddy hill and not do it dangerously, another words its dangerous to cross a river anything could happen same goes for the hill climb. If I was to drown the passanger or role and kill a passanger (due to an unforseen suition) then do I get done for dangerous driving/man sloughter???

1.Good to see you are the exception Dangerous, using a 4wd off road where it should be. That was my dig early at those "Idiots" in spotless shiny ones that go from home to kindy or the office and never touch dirt or tow a boat...
2.I have to agree with Skyrider about that Reid guy. He contributed to a race happening but should he be charged with murder or manslaughter when he didn't lose control/crash himself? Shoot him for leaving the scene for sure. BUT, what if Reid was driving pass a pretty girl walking her dog who gives him a wink and encourages him to show off with a burnout or drag. He obliges, loses control and kills someone else. Was the pedestrian responsible for the death as well? That's a long stretch of the law's arm to me. Lets leave intelligent Politicians decide it for us, yippee.

[dangerous]

I have to agree with Skyrider about that Reid guy. He contributed to a race happening but should he be charged with murder or manslaughter when he didn't lose control/crash himself? Shoot him for leaving the scene for sure. BUT, what if Reid was driving pass a pretty girl walking her dog who gives him a wink and encourages him to show off with a burnout or drag. He obliges, loses control and kills someone else. Was the pedestrian responsible for the death as well? That's a long stretch of the law's arm to me. Lets leave intelligent Politicians decide it for us, yippee.

I do agree here he shouldent be charged for murder or whatever it is, BUT he should be charged for the worse kind of traffic ofence possable.... if he did not accept the drag then theres a high chance that the girl would not of died.
She died cos she raced not cos he did.

[Skyryder]

Like most laws that can be used against the unsuspecting this new law has been promoted both by politicians and the media as a curb against the boy racers. As I understand the new legislation not only can you be booked for speeding but there could be additional charges

7 New section 8 substituted
The principal Act is amended by repealing section 8, and
substituting the following section:
‘‘8 Drivers not to be careless or inconsiderate
A person may not drive a vehicle, or cause a vehicle to be
driven, carelessly or without reasonable consideration for
other persons.’’

So you have realy loud pipes at 5000 to 7000 rpm's is that inconsiderate to others? That's the best case scenario. As I aluded in my earlier post,
you are parked at the lights some plonkker thinks that he can take you on you burn him and then at 50k.s throttle back and unbeknown to you some one walked out in front of the boy racer and the racer knocks him over. But then you never saw the witness standing on the corner who promptly inform the plod that you were dragging of the boy racer. Hell there are hundreds of variation on this theme but I am sure all here get my drift. You have broken no laws othe than been off at the lights quickish. I just have a problem with this sort of legislation.

Skyryder