Double fatal crash, Rotorua (29 April)

[spudchucka]

Let's not be overly judgemental in the absence of any information other than what's been reported in the media.

Yeah, that would be so un-kiwibikerish.

[Oakie]

This whole thing comes at a scary time for me ... being the same weekend that I got Mrs Oakie riding a bike on her own again after so long away. Can't not carry it through for the fear that 'something might happen' but hell ... it makes it scary.

RIP riders.

[orange dog]

I agree....but one thing i'm learning is to never jump the gun and assume
anything until all facts are presented.

As an example of jumping the gun, based on pretty damming evidence someone may have the smell of alcohol on their breath in the workplace - Do you jump the gun and fire them immediately? Or could it be, that they may possibly have diabetes which contributes to the alcohol smell on their breath? They may not be boozing or drunk at work afterall. (this example has nothing to do with the detection of alcohol and this incident btw)

Anyway back on topic

While I try to no longer pre-judge people or their actions since having kids, suspecting someone at work with alcohol on their breath and not jumping the gun is one thing, not pre-judging someone with alcohol on their breath after they have crossed into an on-coming lane causing multiple innocent deaths while not wearing a seatbelt and in charge of minors, starts getting a bit harder...
sorry, just going through the emotions (anger at the moment)

[festus]

agreed... im glad hes rotting. he would have got a fine and a slap on the wrist at best. i dont care whether his family come on here... if he was drinking with them, then they should have taken his keys and refused to let him take the kids. the obviously dont have any more respect for other people than the driver did.

I feel those comments are a bit harsh...........not proven yet if he was drunk, so some respect towards the drivers family at least...........

[chanceyy]

'Not trying to go off topic but I noticed how differently the Herald treated this story to the Dompost. I think the Dom has it in for bikes. They never print any of my letters to the Ed with the word motorcycle in it- oh bikes, trash that letter. Whereas the herald today painted a sympathetic and comprehensive story on the bike victims AND made no doubt who was at fault. Monday's Dompost "2 motorcyclists died when they crossed the centreline. Police suspect alcohol and speed may have contributed' The wording clearly implied the riders were at fault. Tuesday's Dompost, no correction I notice.

I noticed that too from the Dom .. the way it read it indicated that the bikes crossed the centreline, all other reports I read indicated the car crossed the centreline ..

[nudemetalz]

Mrs Nudie rides the Moto-Guzzi to work and back, plus some weekend riding as I can't ride at present.
This accident makes me nervous as hell for her safety in a way I've never felt before.
Anyone else here feel like that?

[What?]

Mrs Nudie rides the Moto-Guzzi to work and back, plus some weekend riding as I can't ride at present.
This accident makes me nervous as hell for her safety in a way I've never felt before.
Anyone else here feel like that?

I think of it thus - if the three bikers had been in a nice, safe little Daihatsu/Starlet/Micro/Whatever, they would be just as dead after a collision like that. Somewhere you have to draw a line between keeping yourself safe and having a life, because the extreme ends of each naturally detract from the other.

[Blackadda]

Latests news is that the Driver was a long term drunk driver who is/was currently disqualified?


Farker...................

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I feel those comments are a bit harsh...........not proven yet if he was drunk, so some respect towards the drivers family at least...........

Blackadda Latests news is that the Driver was a long term drunk driver who is/was currently disqualified?


Farker...................

If what blackadda is saying here is true then having respect for this guys family is not a option for me they murdered our fellow riders just as much as he did and as for putting those kids in the car is another thing

[Mom]

I have just read todays Herald article about this, very chilling reading indeed

"20-year habit

* Gordon Armstrong's first conviction for drink driving was in 1986, the next in 1997. He was convicted again in 2000 and 2004.

* In 2000, he was indefinitely disqualified from driving, meaning he could not renew his licence until he completed a mandatory disqualification period and drug and alcohol counselling.

* Although he finished the counselling, he did not renew his licence once the disqualification ended, and had driven without a licence since."

Just goes to show no amount of legislation/convictions or what have you will stop some people..........

[quickbuck]

I have just read todays Herald article about this, very chilling reading indeed

"20-year habit

* Gordon Armstrong's first conviction for drink driving was in 1986, the next in 1997. He was convicted again in 2000 and 2004.

* In 2000, he was indefinitely disqualified from driving, meaning he could not renew his licence until he completed a mandatory disqualification period and drug and alcohol counselling.

* Although he finished the counselling, he did not renew his licence once the disqualification ended, and had driven without a licence since."

Just goes to show no amount of legislation/convictions or what have you will stop some people..........

That leaves a bit of a sick feeling in my stomach.

I know it doesn't make it any easier for us to take (well in many cases, harder) the news about the motorcyclists.

Lets just hope this tragidy highlights the need for some changes in attitudes toward serial drunks, and the passing of our fellow riders isn't in vein.

[candor]

Just goes to show no amount of legislation/convictions or what have you will stop some people..........

Hmmm.... not really. The article also said Police said he'd never been jailed (as one might hope for after 4 convictions) so its not like he ever got any big knockback over his behaviour under our soft system

There really was nothing to deter him. My Mums killer had 7 convictions (drug driving prosecuted as "careless" and one drink driving and 2 driving disqual) - never jailed. LAW = JOKE since they downgraded road homicide to being 'non violent crime' Until DUI is taken seriously here in NZ we get what we ask for.

We have the lowest penalties for DUI road homicide full stop. Our max sentences are exactly 1/2 Ozzies.
Average time for a kill served 12 months - that would be a bad offender too.

Now if he'd been a petty thief (a threat to capitalism)our system may have set out to deter or punish him him with a bit of prison time but a potential road killer - no big deal.

As he'd completed the counseling he prolly woulda got his license back on request. If he lived in Victoria he'd have got his license back (only maybe) but also been forced to pay for and install an alcolock cognition on his car.

These people have s*** for brains and zero insight. Its not really choice given both that and the genetic component of alcoholism / addiction. For a few thousand several lives would have been saved by a bit of technology. But we're bush...

I hope the Antoinette who was killed is not this nurse I worked a few shifts with down South (don't remember her last name).

[riffer]

Sent to local MP:

Good day Paul,

I read with dismay that the man who killed 3 motorcyclists when he crossed the centreline in Rotorua last weekend was a recidivist drunk driver on indefinite disqualification:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10437300

On Saturday night I was walking home from an entertaining mystery murder night at friends house in Sheridan Cres when a car came roaring around the Ward Street/Fergusson Drive roundabout, drove straight up the kerb, the driver’s door swung open and the driver vomited over the road. He composed himself, and then drove on in a wobbly fashion.

Clearly, drivers don’t care about drunk driving still.

I am a motorcyclist (have been for 26 years) and a voter in your electorate (I live in Melrose Street). Every Thursday night we listen to cars racing up McLean Street. Our cat was killed last year by one of them. And I am certain there’s alcohol involved with some of these people too. I have four children. The last thing I want is for one of these idiots to take me out.

Yet the government seems hell bent on pursuing drivers who exceed the speed limits by a small margin on otherwise safe roads. The police regularly target the passing lanes on SH2 and River Road (although on River Road that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but that’s another story).

Yet alcohol seems to go unnoticed (as far as I can see).

What plans do the government have to deal with drivers who continue to drive drunk while disqualified?

My opinion:. A motorist who kills while under the influence of alcohol or drugs should be charged with vehicular manslaughter. If there’s no such charge, I suggest you do something about it. There would be a huge amount of support for a law to deal with this. I find it abhorrent that we continue to give these offenders light sentences for what amounts to killing someone with a lethal weapon.

Yet we continue to call them “accidents”. There’s nothing accidental about it. Time to call them what they are: killings.

Thanks for your time. I’m happy to discuss this whenever you like.

[festus]

Blackadda Latests news is that the Driver was a long term drunk driver who is/was currently disqualified?


Farker...................

If what blackadda is saying here is true then having respect for this guys family is not a option for me they murdered our fellow riders just as much as he did and as for putting those kids in the car is another thing

What a load of bullshit dude!. The guy behind the wheel killed the motorcyclists, not his family. He made the decision to get behind the wheel drunk, and drive, not his family.
The family should have stopped him doing this?... how do we know what his family have done to stop him doing this shit, maybe they tried and failed, some people cannot be helped, it appears this guy was one of them.

To blame and condem his family is fuckin pretty shallow dude!!! Leave them out of it, they have enough to deal with now after this shit!.....

[Mrs Busa Pete]

What a load of bullshit dude!. The guy behind the wheel killed the motorcyclists, not his family. He made the decision to get behind the wheel drunk, and drive, not his family.
The family should have stopped him doing this?... how do we know what his family have done to stop him doing this shit, maybe they tried and failed, some people cannot be helped, it appears this guy was one of them.

To blame and condemn his family is fuckin pretty shallow dude!!! Leave them out of it, they have enough to deal with now after this shit!.....

Well first of this Mrs busa Pete so sorry for not making that clear.

But you are entitled to your option as am i which will not change. The power of family is very strong should they choose to use this power which this family obviously choose not to use re allowing there own children to be put in that car my god they could not respect there own kids so that must say a lot for them. Should i be proven wrong i would be first in line to apologize but dollars to donuts I'm not. If that makes me shallow so be it.