Zero Tolerance

[bell]

i live in west australia and no, bell, he is NOT one of us
- HE'S just a piss-poor excuse for a lame-brained, grovelling public servant [ha - THAT's a laff!] THAT JUST HAPPENS TO OWN A MOTORCYCLE and, no matter how he tries to dress it up is mindlessly and slavishly following the party line that it MUST be speed that's mostly responsible, right? ..

Ahh, I see. Cheers for the enlightenment.

[Hitcher]

it needs education not legislation.

I am so over "social marketing" telling me what I should and shouldn't do. A challenge for the "educators" is that the group that they are trying to "educate" is basically the same group -- overweight smokers with domestic violence issues who don't know when enough is enough. In other words, lower socio-economic groups who don't read papers, watch free-to-air television or read magazines.

New Zealand is increasingly becoming a nation of haves and have-nots. And the latter group is becoming increasingly isolated and hard to reach through "traditional" channels. There will be political consequences at some stage in the the not-too-distant future, but I'm not prepared to predict what these may be, other than to state that I believe they will be significant.

[Grahameeboy]

Mate, if it takes you 5mins to get out of the car, I would assume you're already gonna fail.........


Doesn't Sweden, (along with the other Scandinavian countries), have one of the highest alcoholism rates in the world......

Don't know but it doesn't fit with Ixion's logic.

[Quartermile]

Been said a lot but the ones who do it to the extremes just don't care and the law change wont stop them, Just like incidents like the kahui twins aren't going to be stopped by some pissy anti-smacking law, yea yea I know different issue.

Anyway drinking irresponsibly is bad and shouldn't be encouraged, shut up Mike and Bungy

[Chaos83]

Zero tolerance IS an effective solution! It solves the problem of drunk drivers because those who drive drunk and disregard the law are going to.... drive drunk and disregard the law. Oh, did someone think they were going to stop? ahahaha

Zero tolerance. It only takes a few anally PC to observe a minority and punish the majority. Zero tolerance = Anally PC = doesn't solve the problem.

__________________

[Big Dog]

Totally support heavier penalties for drink drivers.
However I think there is a difference between having the self control to stop at one and drinking till you can barely stand before you get behind the wheel.
I would not give up my right to have a beer with dinner or with freinds after a ride just so they could lock up people who currently would not be too drunk to drive. This definately comes under the punish the innocent to get the guilty category.

[Grahameeboy]

Totally support heavier penalties for drink drivers.
However I think there is a difference between having the self control to stop at one and drinking till you can barely stand before you get behind the wheel.
I would not give up my right to have a beer with dinner or with freinds after a ride just so they could lock up people who currently would not be too drunk to drive. This definately comes under the punish the innocent to get the guilty category.

Surely it is about joint responsibility. We all agree that drinking and driving is a no no, however, at the same time we do not support zero tolerance because it affects our right to have a beer and talk about being punished to get the guilty......so alcohol wins again, however, is is not worth it to try and reduce the problem so that innocent people do not become victims.

We always talk about how it is the minority that affect the majority and by ignoring the idea of zero tolerance we are allowing the minority to do just that when surely it is the majority who should have the say over the minority....mind you, I suspect we would make Greece look like teetotolers so maybe the problem is that the minority is a bit more than that?

I notice a few names on the 'No' side that I see have a few beers during a ride............

[Edbear]

Surely it is about joint responsibility. We all agree that drinking and driving is a no no, however, at the same time we do not support zero tolerance because it affects our right to have a beer and talk about being punished to get the guilty......

I notice a few names on the 'No' side that I see have a few beers during a ride............

Good point! The guilty, are those who drive/ride over the legal limit. If the limit is set for clearly supported medical reasons and for the safety of road users, how can anyone claim they are innocent if they are caught over the limit? If one drinks and drives/rides over the legal limit and are therefore placing themselves and other road users at risk, they deserve the full weight of the law and I have no sympathy.

The issue is two-fold, how to enforce the existing laws more effectively and how to stop racidivist offenders who have no regard for laws at all.

[What?]

Having a zero tolerance won't stop the people who just don't care. They don't care under the current system and they wouldn't care under a zero tolerance system either.

Egg bloody zacktly!

[Grahameeboy]

Having a zero tolerance won't stop the people who just don't care. They don't care under the current system and they wouldn't care under a zero tolerance system either.

How do you know. Do you have evidence? Until we try we don't know but what we do know is that the current system doesn't work so what harm will be done if we try a zero tolerance approach.

Maybe some (not all I admit) may start to care when they know there is a zero tolerance and over time it may change the culture towards alcohol.

Some have ignored the clear message from the Swedes....Ixion said that according to the AA a zero tolerance would not help...then someone said that the Swedes have a high rate of alcoholics yet they still top the charts with a zero tolerance system which shows it does work despite alcoholics.

[scumdog]

How do you know. Do you have evidence? Until we try we don't know but what we do know is that the current system doesn't work so what harm will be done if we try a zero tolerance approach.

Maybe some (not all I admit) may start to care when they know there is a zero tolerance and over time it may change the culture towards alcohol.

When some old soak says "Ah, it's worth the risk, if you get caught only every six or eight years and spread the costs and fines over that length of time it's bugger all and I can live with being disqualified, I even drive at times" - I consider THAT is evidence that the applied penalties are not enough to scare people out of driving drunk.

And the people who ignore the present level shows that they won't care a hoot about the idea of zero tolerance. (just like a certain amount don't care about a WOF, wearing seatbelts, having a licence, paying off their HP, paying rent, having a firearms licence yadda yadda yadda..........The ones that would heed the zero tolerance are very likely the ones heeding the present level imho.

[Finn]

Some have ignored the clear message from the Swedes....Ixion said that according to the AA a zero tolerance would not help...then someone said that the Swedes have a high rate of alcoholics yet they still top the charts with a zero tolerance system which shows it does work despite alcoholics.

That's because they have a very efficient public transport system. Cars are very expensive so the poor people can't buy them, get depressed and turn to alcohol. No problem on the underground. You can't compare Sweden to NZ. Swedes are more educated, intelligent and responsible. Take my lady for example, if she had even a drop, she would never drive, where as me.... weeeeeeeeeeee.

Laws stop nothing Fluffy.

[KoroJ]

And the people who ignore the present level shows that they won't care a hoot about the idea of zero tolerance. (just like a certain amount don't care about a WOF, wearing seatbelts, having a licence, paying off their HP, paying rent, having a firearms licence yadda yadda yadda..........The ones that would heed the zero tolerance are very likely the ones heeding the present level imho.

Hear, hear!!

A very good friend's wife was killed on a StepThru in Chch by a drunk who was driving disqualified and had been picked-up driving, days before.

This wouldn't be an isolated incident, zero tolerance was never going to stop this guy. We're not alowed to castrate them so we live with it as best we can.

Don't penalise me for pricks like that!!

[Grahameeboy]

When some old soak says "Ah, it's worth the risk, if you get caught only every six or eight years and spread the costs and fines over that length of time it's bugger all and I can live with being disqualified, I even drive at times" - I consider THAT is evidence that the applied penalties are not enough to scare people out of driving drunk.

And the people who ignore the present level shows that they won't care a hoot about the idea of zero tolerance. (just like a certain amount don't care about a WOF, wearing seatbelts, having a licence, paying off their HP, paying rent, having a firearms licence yadda yadda yadda..........The ones that would heed the zero tolerance are very likely the ones heeding the present level imho.

Can't we at least try.......

Hear, hear!!

A very good friend's wife was killed on a StepThru in Chch by a drunk who was driving disqualified and had been picked-up driving, days before.

This wouldn't be an isolated incident, zero tolerance was never going to stop this guy. We're not alowed to castrate them so we live with it as best we can.

Don't penalise me for pricks like that!!

I do not disagree, however, what is wrong with trying. If what SD says and highre fines will not deter then surely it is worth trying........what have we got to lose.

And your rights are not being penalised. You can still have a drink but cannot drive. Options are a sober driver with turns taken.

As long as a vehicle is in motion speed will always be considered 'a factor'.

I would, however, be a bit miffed if I couldn't have a glass of wine the next time I took my missus out for dinner, so where do you draw the line? You'll never save people from themselves and protecting the innocent is also nigh on impossible.

I understand, however, I just think we have to look at the bigger picture rather than just ourselves because a driver who just has 1 glass of wine could lose control, hit and kill someone you know......and how do we know that for that split moment it took, that that 1 glass of wine did not contribute.

[Squeak the Rat]

Drink driving can kill.

So can losing control of your vehicle at speed.

I call for a zero tolerance to any speed in a car. We need to reduce the speed culture. It works well in the CAR (Central Republic of Africa), there are hardly any road deaths.

You can drive your car home, but then it must remain at 0kph otherwise you will go to jail.