Tyre Wear

[AMPS]

No such thing as "profit" in tyres for us.

Not surprising at the prices you quote. (Good on ya, anyway)
Lou

[Coldkiwi]

[QUOTE=TonyB]What are the Pirellis like? Do they need heat to work properly?
QUOTE]

not from what i've found and i've always used the sticker versions of pirelli's offerings. My brief altercation with D207's suggested that the Dunlops may be in a different camp (not bad once hot) although I know the D207 was replaced with the 208 for a number of reasons so its probably not fair to draw a direct conclusion to other newer models of Dunlop.

[scroter]

recent track day suggest yes pirellis do need heating up but ive never noticed it on the road. cant stand dunlops either.

[dangerous]

I think mismatched tyres are a recipe for disaster.

This is not just a question for you jim anyone can answer, Ok then do you consider a MEz3 frount and MEz4 rear is mismatching? these tyres are the same profile, pattern but do have a different compound ie: z3 sport & z4 sport/touring.

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.

Who considers this to be mismatched?
Or is mismatching more the mixing of brands.

[DEATH_INC.]

No,mismatching is mixing different tyres,brand or model.As the bridgee guy was saying,they use different profiles and compounds in different models of tyres.It's the same with idiots that use undersized(180,6" rim)or oversized(190,5.5" rim)it changes the profile,so it dosen't work properly.

[Blakamin]

Mine are mismatched... 110/80/17 pirelli sport demon on the front and 150/60 18 Dunlop gpr80 on the rear... both are better than the matching set of arrowmax on the zeal... I find it wants to fall into corners nicely and the sticky(er) rear lets be power on heaps more without the squirm the zeal had... might just be the bike, but these tyres are heaps better. including on Kapiti Rd's stupid little grooves (really crap road surface outside placemakers that looks like it was raked like a sand-trap parrallel to the gutters) that used to make the zeal squirm.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yeh,that's the other side of the debate,as long as yer tyres do what you want from them

[James Deuce]

Yeh,that's the other side of the debate,as long as yer tyres do what you want from them

US Litigation lawyers, and coming at an ever increasing pace, NZ ones.

[James Deuce]

This is not just a question for you jim anyone can answer, Ok then do you consider a MEz3 frount and MEz4 rear is mismatching? these tyres are the same profile, pattern but do have a different compound ie: z3 sport & z4 sport/touring.

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.

Who considers this to be mismatched?
Or is mismatching more the mixing of brands.

Mixed tyres don't work together as well as a matched set. There is always a part of their performance envelope where one tyre won't be doing something the other needs it to. That could be clearing water from the road surface in the case of a front, to allow the rear to maximise traction and avoid wheelspin in the wet. Another example is where more recent bikes have begun to take advantage of 500GP and MotoGP research into lateral chassis flexion, to relieve the tyres from having to perform all the work of the suspension at high angles of dangle. Mixing tyres means that when you really push it you may find unpredictable handling quirks that could mean an off.

Wear rates come in to it as well. A matched set will allow the bike to work as a whole meaning a similar wear pattern for both tyres across their working life even if the rear wears out twice as fast as the front. This avoids the dreaded squaring off and its attendant handling issues. Back when I was a 2 smoke fanatic, the "in" tyre combo for the RG 250, RG400/500, and CBR600 (not a two smoke, but part of the same hooligan crowd) was a Metzler Me33 Comp K front, and a Metzler ME1 Comp K rear. Metzler recommended this fitting for demanding sport or track riding but warned that the tread patterns and centre profiles were markedly different and the rear would square off fairly quickly. It is the only tyre combo I've used where I regularly squared the rear tyre off. The Yokohama radials I used on the RC30 were a super sticky compound, but the rear actually lasted better than the rear Metzler on my RG400, even with close to 2/3rds more HP. The Michelin's I use on the TRX are superb, and are a development of the original OEM MAcadam, but with a very different silica based compund, similar to the defunct Pilot Sport. The bike's suspension and handling behaviour is designed around these tyres and I have no complaints. They hook up wonderfully on exit, and don't squirm under hard braking or cornering. Slides, even in the wet and cold are telegraphed ahead.

Uh - that's just a long winded way of saying I know diddly squat about tyre and suspension design and manufacture, so I'm happy to go with what the manufacturers tell me. I guess that makes me a fan boi, but I'm happy to admit I'm ignorant and learn, rather than scathingly dismiss expert advice without investigation.

[TonyB]

second example: Dunlop D208 frount and D220 rear, in this case the 208 is a sport tyre and 220 sport/tourer. the difference is same profile, but different pattern (220 has beter water pattern for touring) 208 softer compound than 220.

I don't know this for certain (may be completely wrong), but the way I understand it is this: You can have two tyres: a sports tyre and a sports/touring tyre- say the D220 and D208- and even if they are both 180/55's they won't have the same cross sectional shape. The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width. So a D220 and a D208 180/55 will have the same outside diameter and circumference but the D220 is designed to be stable in a straight line and steer slowly whereas the D208 is designed to steer quickly. If you cut through them, the cross sectional shape of the tyres will be quite different. The D208 is probably going to have lower side walls to allow for a bigger foot print at higher lean angles etc. Then there's compounds tread patterns etc....

Is this correct?

[dangerous]

The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width.
Is this correct?

That is what I have been lead to believe.
But as for the difference with the 208 & 220 rear..... honestly who notices the difference (when there is a 208 on the frount) Shit I pushed the Storm bloody hard last w/e at Ruapuna and had no probs at all...... I dont no, maybe if i had matching 208's on the bike it would off cornered better, but I was happy with the 208/220 mix.

[DEATH_INC.]

I don't know this for certain (may be completely wrong), but the way I understand it is this: You can have two tyres: a sports tyre and a sports/touring tyre- say the D220 and D208- and even if they are both 180/55's they won't have the same cross sectional shape. The way I understand it, the 55 stands for the aspect ratio meaning that the height of the crown of the tyre above the rim is 55% of the width. So a D220 and a D208 180/55 will have the same outside diameter and circumference but the D220 is designed to be stable in a straight line and steer slowly whereas the D208 is designed to steer quickly. If you cut through them, the cross sectional shape of the tyres will be quite different. The D208 is probably going to have lower side walls to allow for a bigger foot print at higher lean angles etc. Then there's compounds tread patterns etc....

Is this correct?

Basically,yes.There's also big differences in the consruction layers of fibres inside the tyre,different thicknesses,different angles,sidewall fillers ect ect.These all affect how the tyre works(flexes) under power/brakes and cornering loads,and are all stuff you can't see.If you've ever tried different tyres on your bike and noticed how different they make the bike feel,it's mostly due to the internal construction,not compounds and tread patterns....

[TonyB]

I sent an email my local tyre shop showing them the wear patterns etc and they forwarded it to Dunlop. This is the reply:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all the wear on the tyre.The D208 is modern tyre made for modern bikes with high ride height at the back and a low front end which means that you can get the use of what seams like unrealistic shape of the front tyre.When your FZR was new, tyres of the time had flat profiles which suited the set up of the bike. So in short if you added a heap of ride hieght and dropped the forks through the clamps it would one allow you to use all of the tyre and secondly make you bike handle badly as the bike is not designed to be set up like this.I would recommend trying D220 as they are much more suited to this type of bike with shape and if you are worried about grip remember they didn't have tyres this good in 1989.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what do you all think? It could well be that he is following the standard line of not advising to change the set up of the bike for fear of litigation, but I can see his point. It would be interesting to see what the weight distribution is like with a rider on board, as I assume the idea would be to always have a 50-50 distribution front and rear. If there really is little point in using modern sporty tires then I think my next set will be Bridgestones rather than D220's, as where ever I go I find people that really don't like Dunlops. I reckon the Dunlops are a good tyre, but then I haven't tried Bridgestones...

My theory with the front end is if it's not using nearly as much front tyre as back tyre, then the contact patch must be smaller than it should be- kind of like putting a 100 or 90 wide tyre on- that can't be a good thing with a heavy ol' FZR!

[James Deuce]

Sounds like you got some good advice from the horse's mouth. I've got some good reviews of D220s somewhere. I'll try and find them.

[mangell6]

I have had Bridgestones on the FZ and now have Dunlops with 220 on the rear and . . . . on the front.

Observations

1. 020s in the cold and the wet 'slide'. In the Summer they are fine with extremely good wear. 10K rear and 17k front.
2. Dunlops are sure footed in the cold and wet and in the summer they are really sticky. 9k rear and 15k front

I am in Upper Hutt, ride around the North Island and occasionally the south. The 020s have 'dropped' out on me several times when on 'wet' roads, this was through Haast and winter in the Paraparas.

The 'temperature' where you live has a extremely big bearing on what your tyres are like for you. One must select the tyre for your bike and the locale where you normally ride.

I am currently waiting for this set of tyres to wear so that I can try the Metzlers on the bick next.

Mike