Letter about traffic light sensors, to the Wellington City Council

[nudemetalz]

I've just seen this thread.
I work with Soon Teck and he is a great guy.
Us WCC people don't just tell people to pee off if they have some complaints.

Case in point is Helston Road. I've been campaigning to the higher ups about the condition of that road, in particular being a deathtrap in the wet for us bikers. 50% has been done and I am still working on the rest.

With the traffic light sensors, feel free to let me know I can do get on to the right people straight away and eliminate any red-tape etc.

Remember, I'm not riding at present so I don't know which ones are bad for us.

NDMz

[Waylander]

Go the heavy bikes.

I'vegot this one light that alwys gave me trouble on my ride to work. Comming off of Route P here in Tauranga and up a hill to Waihi Rd to turn right.

Used to sit for quite a while waiting for the light to turn red and it doesn't always change for cars either though.
One day I noticed that the signs of the sensor grid are actually farther back down the hill and fairly narrow aswell so cars don't always hit it. I tried revving my engine as I passed over that spot one day and the light changed before I came to a complete stop. Same thing the next day. Problem solved for me.


Anyway the answere you'll probably get back from them is to get a car.

[Steam]

Go the heavy bikes.

I'm sure you've read all those threads where it's explained the sensors are inductive sensors, they sense the electrical current generated by metal (ferrous) objects passing through their magnetic field. Not weight.

[Waylander]

I'm sure you've read all those threads where it's explained the sensors are inductive sensors, they sense the electrical current generated by metal (ferrous) objects passing through their magnetic field. Not weight.

More metal in my bike than most others mate. Better chance of it being picked up by the sensors.

[James Deuce]

You've missed the point Jim2, but Hawkeye has it extremely right, exactly. We can't complain about every set of lights that don't recognise us, that would be an ongoing and thankless task.
Instead the techs could just check the sensitivity every time they open the box to inspect or fiddle or whatever. Just add an extra 30-second task to their job.
I'll re-hash MY letter to emphasise this.

Jim please feel free to send another letter saying you are a hard-man and have an inductive arse, and that my letter is sent by a hemp-wearing hippie who rides a bike made of sticks and recycled mud.

I've tried to tell you guys that I have spoken to this guy before over the phone and had two sensors fixed, one in Murphy St and one in Featherston St. You've sent off a ranty letter that just goes to show what a bunch of loud mouthed wankers motorcyclists are, demanding special rights and attention. Believe me, providing exact information means that the next time the sensor box is visited IT WILL BE FIXED.

You seem to think this guy is stupid and completely unable to plan for future work.

If you can't provide specific instances it can't be added to a future plan of work can it? They're not just going to go out and adjust them all because someone moaned. I would suggest that that would be a somewhat more thankless task than knowing which few don't work

If you can't be part of the solution what is the point of contacting an agency for help?

Just like most "politically aware" NZers you're perfectly happy to point out what you think is wrong with a system, but you won't get off your bum and help.

I can't get over just how helpful WCC traffic people are. I politely emailed and asked if it would be possible to look at having a bike park nearer to work and 6 weeks later there was one right outside my building. They are NOT the enemy.

[Steam]

I
If you can't provide specific instances it can't be added to a future plan of work can it?

Sigh. You just don't get it do you Jim?
Even after it's been explained to you several times.

[James Deuce]

No YOU don't get it.

When I've contacted them in the past they have asked me to provide any other instances of sensors that create problems.

You're just having a whinge for the sake of it.

Your letter was destructive and faintly insulting, to a bunch of people who've repeatedly shown to me that they are willing to help with any reasonable request. You made unreasonable demands in your letter and whined about "safety".

It is actually an EXTREMELY rare sensor that doesn't pick up a bike, and as I've said YOU need to review your procedure for tripping lights.

[Delphinus]

From what I've gathered a number of people are having trouble at a number of lights... that indicates to me that its not rare.

The letter in my opinion looked non-destructive and quite formal. Which is good. Steam raised a point that is valid and asked politely whether in the future this issue (sensor sensitivity) could be taken into account with regular work.
If they dont get feedback, they cant improve can they? Goes for anything and anyone.

You're just having a whinge for the sake of it.

Who are we talking about again sorry

Just remember Jim2, other people are allowed valid opinions other than yours...

[James Deuce]

I'm not voicing an opinion. They've asked for specific feedback about specific intersections before, and providing the information got them fixed.

Given my own experiences in the same town on anything from 250s to 1900cc bikes I don't see where Steam or Hawkeye are coming from, and as I've said , correct positioning at an intersection will trigger the lights 99% of the time. I personally only have an issue with one set of lights in the Wellington region and they are in the Hutt.

Any letter requesting assistance from an "authority" that has no factual corroborated evidence, more than one paragraph, and wants global change for the whole Wellington region falls into talk back radio listener territory.

Steam doesn't attempt even faintly to provide any assistance to the people he is demanding action from.

[Bass]

I'm with Jim2 on this one for 2 reasons: -
1. If the people we're trying to reach have shown themselves to be helpful, then let's help them in return.
2. With inductive sensors, I believe that calibrating the sensitivity actually requires the presence of the object being calibrated for - in this case a bike. I think it's unreasonable to ask the techos to take a bike everywhere they go when working on the light controls, but they just might be able to manage something if given specific instances.

[Winter]

What happens if they are 'over sensitive'? Will the trigger when a seagull / helicopter flys above?

So surely WCC can read that letter, say;

"Oh, looks like this problem is more widespread than Jim2's commute to work, how about we make it standard proceedure for anyone opening a traffic light box to wind the senstivity up full bore.
That way we will ensure, albeit eventually, that every intersection in WC is bike friendly."

[Bass]

What happens if they are 'over sensitive'? Will the trigger when a seagull / helicopter flys above?

Sorry but I cannot comment on traffic light sensors specifically. However, for the inductive sensors that I have played around with, if the sensitivity is too high they can saturate and refuse to turn off.
I suspect that traffic light sensors behave much like a commercial metal detector and so will detect any conductive material but some better than others - ferrous metals will work best. They may also need the metal to be moving to be detected, which would explain why revving the motor sometimes works.
This would also mean that each sensor has to be individually tuned - no 2 would be exactly alike and so standard settings are not feasible.

[mdooher]

I can see both sides here but in my humble opinion "Do it right the first time" The sensor needs to be adjusted properly from the start and periodically after that. If they don't have a motor bike what’s wrong with a calibrated trolley or even a calibrated rubbish bin lid. It isn't rocket science.

Oh yeah, faulty lights has been used as a defense before but you need to be very sure the way is clear etc

[Toaster]

So much for the hard biker image!!

Oh deary me...my wee bikey won't make the light turn green...I think I'll write a letter of complaint!!

I must be in the 1% of motorcyclists that the sensors work fine for, never had a problem on the R6.

Well, can't say I ever had trouble either, even on my previous bikes.... but then my current toy is carrying a fair bit of metal. Does this make us "1%ers" ??!!!

[Bass]

If they don't have a motor bike what’s wrong with a calibrated trolley or even a calibrated rubbish bin lid.

Yep, something like that would do the trick.
However, they would have to stop traffic to use it which puts a few limitations on it.