What is life without risk?

[swbarnett]

Im sure most people here would agree, hence why we all rid bikes and hate SUVs

However raising the speed limit in NZ isn't really an option. The majority or our roads are rural roads with driveways and other obstacles, such as poos and oil.

We already have different speed limits for different roads. I agree with you that areas with blind corners followed closely by driveways should be posted as such but not necessarily with a speed limit. A hazard warning sign would be far more effective.

You may feel safe speeding through these.

I don't. But the decision is mine. And if I hit anybody because I haven't left enough visibility to stop at the speed that I have chosen then I deserve everything the law throws at me. I was taught to always travel at a speed such that I can stop in half the visibility I have. This is how I judge what speed is safe.

Motorway speeds could be increased but no where near the speeds of the autobahn. Our roading surface compared to theirs is simply put "shit".

I don't think the roads are as bad as most people think. Yes, they could be better but a well maintained vehicle with good tyres (not the nylon crap most people use) can be quite safe at higher speeds on them.

Making the speed limit faster won't improve our standard of driving.

Agreed. I'm not sure what the mechanism is but the evidence does suggest that higher speed limits leads to lower road tolls.

Anyway my point is that although i like to speed, that is my own choice.

And you shouldn't be penalised for this.

[swbarnett]

So the Govt's actions be allowing cigarettes to be sold can lead to the death of another person........are they murderers?

No, the smoker is committing suicide.

The Govt sell Motorcycles which can easily exceed the speed limit.....bit like selling a loaded gun.......they receive Gst on new sales and I guess on motorcycle clothing, yet it is illegal to exceed the speed limit and if you do and get caught we pay a fine.

Well you get my drift

Selling a tool does not make you responsible for it's misuse. Is a hardware store responsible for a murder committed with a shovel?

[swbarnett]

I would love a world where people could be responsible for thier own actions and actually have sense but we do not live in such a world.

This is mostly because this is what we expect of them. Treat someone like an idiot and that is what they will become. Treat someone with respect and intelligence and you'll be surprised at how they respond.

Quoting from the Investigate article I mentioned earlier (http://www.investigatemagazine.com/july00speed.htm):

"Using speed limits and speed enforcement as the cornerstone of US highway safety policy is a major mistake," says the NMA’s Chad Dornsife in what should also be a clear warning to New Zealand police. "It is time to accept the fact that increases in traffic speeds are the natural byproduct of advancing technology. People do, in fact, act in a reasonable and responsible manner without constant government intervention.
(I believe NMA is the U.S. National Medical Association)

[MSTRS:Me]

Agreed. I'm not sure what the mechanism is but the evidence does suggest that higher speed limits leads to lower road tolls.

It is a matter of concentration. The slower the speed, the less 'challenge' - therefore, the (more experienced) driver/rider becomes bored and distracted by things other than the road ahead.

[Big Dave]

I did the best stunt I've ever done on a bike yesterday.
Not going to say what it was other than it was irresponsible, potentially deadly and highly dangerous.
Fark I enjoyed it - what a buzz!
Speeding is SO yesterday.

[Reckless]

I don't think the roads are as bad as most people think. Yes, they could be better but a well maintained vehicle with good tyres (not the nylon crap most people use) can be quite safe at higher speeds on them.

As a biker I disagree.
Ever ridden on the Taupo-Napier or far North Roads or most places in the wet. Where that black slippery tar is exposed because the chip has been punched under. Its like Ice.
We use rubber on our tyres that is quite a bit harder because of the coarse chip we use, then the chip on the driving line gets punched under??? And a lot of our roads are in this condition, are pot holed, or very irregular.

I wonder alot of the time how much our crap roads contirbute to accidents.

[007XX]

As a biker I disagree.
Ever ridden on the Taupo-Napier or far North Roads or most places in the wet. Where that black slippery tar is exposed because the chip has been punched under. Its like Ice.
We use rubber on our tyres that is quite a bit harder because of the coarse chip we use, then the chip on the driving line gets punched under??? And a lot of our roads are in this condition, are pot holed, or very irregular.

I wonder alot of the time how much our crap roads contirbute to accidents.

I definitely would tend to agree with you there. I have ridden quite a lot on overseas roads (aka: New Caledonia and France), and there is a big difference. It's not so much that the roads are better elsewhere, but definitely a bit more "even".
It would seem in NZ that a lot pot holes have gathered in particularly dangerous areas such as sharp corners.
Also, a lot of them having been fixed in a"patchwork" style makes for a dodge the slick patch riding style.

But it's still fun, otherwise we wouldn't be doin' it!!!

[loftyk3]

Im sure most people here would agree, hence why we all rid bikes and hate SUVs

I operate & love both bikes & SUVs. At least on the bike I am less likely to do damage to anyone but myself if something goes wrong. When driving the SUV (or any cage) I have a greater chance of causing injury to others and drive accordingly.

Equally I accept the risk of injury through my mistake on the bike, but take a great deal of care to avoid being taken out due to the actions of some other idiot on the road.

[swbarnett]

And a lot of our roads are in this condition, are pot holed, or very irregular.

I must clarify. When I made the comment about our roads being better than people think I was thinking primarily about those in and around Auckland. From what I've seen lately they seem in pretty good condition.

I used to tour quite a bit but haven't done so for about 20 years. I seem to remember that the roads weren't that bad (although I was mostly on the main highways). I used to run softer tyres and never had much of a problem with grip (although I did run foul of the odd pot-hole repair).

[mbazza]

Your final analogy about murder is not logical. Imprisoning those in attendance at a murder is not like getting a fine for speeding! I've never had a fine for NOT SPEEDING. The opposite is not unfortunately true! Anyone ticketed for not speeding (other than going too slowly!) should of course not pay the fine and seek their day (10 min.) in court. Cheers.

[swbarnett]

Your final analogy about murder is not logical. Imprisoning those in attendance at a murder is not like getting a fine for speeding! I've never had a fine for NOT SPEEDING. The opposite is not unfortunately true! Anyone ticketed for not speeding (other than going too slowly!) should of course not pay the fine and seek their day (10 min.) in court. Cheers.

If you're ticketed for speeding you are, in effect, being penalised for the actions of others that cause harm because you share ONE characteristic. Exactly as if all the attendants were jailed for the murder. Another analogy would be if you were to imprison all black people because you know a black person committed the murder. A speeder may have caused an accident, that does not mean that because I'm a speeder that I should be penalised also. It's a form of prejudice.

[swbarnett]

Another thought:

The only reason that we have speed limits in the first place is that the police are lazy and the population at large do not want to pay for a fairer law. Without speed limits the careless/dangerous driving laws would have to be used instead for people out driving the conditions. This would involve more face to face policing instead of cheap, revenue gathering, speed cameras.

[Gremlin]

If drivers expect the roads to be safe they stop looking for hazards (and us). The road toll will actually climb.

I definitely agree with your point about living life... but sheesh, this thread is much too wordy for me

One point re above... I believe these massive long straights the gubbermint likes to build (because they are "safer") are more dangerous. sooooooo boooooooring, no wonder people fall asleep. I hereby demand no more straights, and lots and lots of corners instead, as it would stop me wanting to fall asleep out of sheer boredom

[swbarnett]

the police are lazy

I thought it prudent to say that I have no problem with the front line police officers. By "Police" I mean the organisation (i.e. the policy makers).

[peasea]

Or, to put it another way.........

"Here's a ticket for 111kph"

Whenever you get into the groove, fine day, sun above, clean, dry road beneath and you're 'living life' there'll be someone in a funny hat lurking in the undergrowth to lighten your wallet. (No, I'm not cop-bashing, just stating facts.)

Be calm, never exceed 100kph regardless of the conditions or your abilities. The powers that be have decreed that nobody has the ability to exceed 100kph and we must bow to their authority, yet they allow the importation of vehicles that cruise economically at 115kph etc etc. They know better, it's true! They tell us so, therefore it's fact.

Don't ever have fun, you'll hurt yourself, playgrounds are dangerous places and that makes the roads even moreso. Tax the bikers off the road, adjust the statistics to prove they are a danger to themselves....ad infinitum.

Live life?
Only if you can afford it.........

Justice for all (who have the money) and good health to you all, all who have the right insurance, that is.

(Oops, here's today's headline "Cynical old fart escapes, offers opinion....")