What is life without risk?

[scumdog]

It is a matter of concentration. The slower the speed, the less 'challenge' - therefore, the (more experienced) driver/rider becomes bored and distracted by things other than the road ahead.

I agree - modern cars require minimal effort/concentration to get them down the road, straightening out roads does not help this either.

Result is bored inattentive 'car-steerers' (they ain't 'drivers', that's for sure) that have no idea how slippery the road is, how cold it is out there, how long it will take to stop and other factors obvious to us motorbike riders that generally leading to safer driving.

Cars to a lot of people are just 'things' to get them from a to b as quck as possible and with the least inconvenience, they are just another disposable usable comodity like an electric jug, cordless drill etc, things that also injury and main the unthinking, unfortunatley the big difference is that cars will kill and maim others and several at the same time too, hence more constraints on the manner of their use.

End of rambling blurb.

[Grahameeboy]

I agree - modern cars require minimal effort/concentration to get them down the road, straightening out roads does not help this either.

Result is bored inattentive 'car-steerers' (they ain't 'drivers', that's for sure) that have no idea how slippery the road is, how cold it is out there, how long it will take to stop and other factors obvious to us motorbike riders that generally leading to safer driving.



End of rambling blurb.

But my car tells me how cold it is outside......it's cold getting to the car you know.....I have ABS.......wet road..........how can it not be obvious.....

[scumdog]

Whilst it's true it takes longer to stop when you're travelling faster, there's no conclusive evidence that higher average speed equates to more road fatalities; despite various western governments having spent millions on research with the intention of showing a causal link. In fact, there's plenty of evidence that suggests precisely the opposite from the US; one of the very few countries to have raised speed limits in the past twenty years or so..

Would that our roads allowed a higher speed - while there are a few that do most are too rough/narrow/poor visibility with humps and bends.

The freeways and interstates in the US DO allow for safer higher speed.

[Grahameeboy]

Would that our roads allowed a higher speed - while there are a few that do most are too rough/narrow/poor visibility with humps and bends.

The freeways and interstates in the US DO allow for safer higher speed.

You should see some of the country roads in UK.......

[MSTRS:Me]

When the US government repealed the 55mph maximum on all Interstate highways, they devolved power to set speed limits to the individual state legislatures. Despite various anti-speed pressure groups predicting carnage and destruction, the precise opposite was seen. Where states raised the limits, the road toll fell when compared to those states that left them the same. There was even a proportional link evident: the higher the speed limit, the greater the fall in fatalities.

Also, the practice of making roads 'safer' (ie straight + boring, not fixing poor corner/camber alignment say) is counter-productive, in that lowish speed on a boring road = attention radar OFF.

[scumdog]

But my car tells me how cold it is outside......it's cold getting to the car you know.....I have ABS.......wet road..........how can it not be obvious.....

But do you know what the coldness outside equates to? (probably won't mean anything to people living up your way but it does down here).

And even with ABS most people will just tend to bury the brake-pedal, grit their teeth and still plow into whatever is straight ahead without attempting to swerve around it. (besides, you have to be alert enough and far enough back to stop anyway!)

[MSTRS:Me]

I agree - modern cars require minimal effort/concentration to get them down the road, straightening out roads does not help this either.

Result is bored inattentive 'car-steerers' (they ain't 'drivers', that's for sure) that have no idea how slippery the road is, how cold it is out there, how long it will take to stop and other factors obvious to us motorbike riders that generally leading to safer driving.

Cars to a lot of people are just 'things' to get them from a to b as quck as possible and with the least inconvenience, they are just another disposable usable comodity like an electric jug, cordless drill etc, things that also injury and main the unthinking, unfortunatley the big difference is that cars will kill and maim others and several at the same time too, hence more constraints on the manner of their use.

End of rambling blurb.

Geez, for a moment there I thought you had joined the darkside
Stick around so we can keep working on you, then when we think you are ready, you can go for the commissioner's post.....

[Grahameeboy]

But do you know what the coldness outside equates to? (probably won't mean anything to people living up your way but it does down here).

And even with ABS most people will just tend to bury the brake-pedal, grit their teeth and still plow into whatever is straight ahead without attempting to swerve around it. (besides, you have to be alert enough and far enough back to stop anyway!)

I know ............being from UK I know what cold is and Auckland is summer everyday.....even found Queenstown warm..........

[Sanx]

Would that our roads allowed a higher speed - while there are a few that do most are too rough/narrow/poor visibility with humps and bends. The freeways and interstates in the US DO allow for safer higher speed.

It's not that the speed limit is higher in absolute terms. Obviously a 6-lane mirror-smooth highway is going be safe at higher speeds than on some of the goat-tracks LTNZ laughingly refer to as roads. The point was that raising the speed limits on these roads equated to fewer fatal accidents. I'm not saying that all NZ roads would benefit from higher speed limits - precisely the opposite, in fact - but the government's mantra of "Speed Kills" is just simply wrong.

Inappropriate speed kills. Higher speed limits and average road speeds, where safe, have been shown to reduce road accidents. Obviously limits need to be set taking into account the road itself, but the general principle is cannot be ignored.

[peasea]

It's not that the speed limit is higher in absolute terms. Obviously a 6-lane mirror-smooth highway is going be safe at higher speeds than on some of the goat-tracks LTNZ laughingly refer to as roads. The point was that raising the speed limits on these roads equated to fewer fatal accidents. I'm not saying that all NZ roads would benefit from higher speed limits - precisely the opposite, in fact - but the government's mantra of "Speed Kills" is just simply wrong.

Inappropriate speed kills. Higher speed limits and average road speeds, where safe, have been shown to reduce road accidents. Obviously limits need to be set taking into account the road itself, but the general principle is cannot be ignored.

Some good points are being made here and we've heard most of them before. It all boils down to education, not legislation. I can't for the life of me understand why the Road Code isn't part of the school curriculum, starting at primary level. From how to cross the street safely in Year 1, progressing into road rules at Intermediate, and car control and even some basic maintenance, (tyre pressures for one!) at secondary level. Sure the local bobbies do the rounds and teach some bicycle safety stuff and that's all good, but it should be expanded on by the schools, not just loaded onto the cops. Would a five-minute scrub-up on basic road rules at 2.55pm be so hard? It would probably save some young lives.

If you don't teach people, how will they know.....anything?

My 17y/o got to restricted level recently and there was no way she was leaving home on her own until she proved that she could check her tyres, change one, find the dipstick and check the water without getting scalded. (Actually, she already knew it all but I made her run through it.) She knows to slow down in the rain, use her rear view mirrors and I find her to be a cautiously confident driver. Now I'm looking at finding somewhere to show her some skid control, which sadly isn't part of the testing procedure. (Watch this space, I bet I get slapped with some sort of fine doing that too, regardless of the location!)

When everyone is 'fully educated' then we MIGHT see SOME roads get an increase in the speed limit. Don't hold your breath tho'.

As an aside; there seems to some lack of understanding here when it comes to sarcasm. Oh well.

[Grahameeboy]

Some good points are being made here and we've heard most of them before. It all boils down to education, not legislation. I can't for the life of me understand why the Road Code isn't part of the school curriculum, starting at primary level. From how to cross the street safely in Year 1, progressing into road rules at Intermediate, and car control and even some basic maintenance, (tyre pressures for one!) at secondary level. Sure the local bobbies do the rounds and teach some bicycle safety stuff and that's all good, but it should be expanded on by the schools, not just loaded onto the cops. Would a five-minute scrub-up on basic road rules at 2.55pm be so hard? It would probably save some young lives.

If you don't teach people, how will they know.....anything?

My 17y/o got to restricted level recently and there was no way she was leaving home on her own until she proved that she could check her tyres, change one, find the dipstick and check the water without getting scalded. (Actually, she already knew it all but I made her run through it.) She knows to slow down in the rain, use her rear view mirrors and I find her to be a cautiously confident driver. Now I'm looking at finding somewhere to show her some skid control, which sadly isn't part of the testing procedure. (Watch this space, I bet I get slapped with some sort of fine doing that too, regardless of the location!)

When everyone is 'fully educated' then we MIGHT see SOME roads get an increase in the speed limit. Don't hold your breath tho'.

As an aside; there seems to some lack of understanding here when it comes to sarcasm. Oh well.

Agree totally..................cyclists jumping reds, car drivers doing same......all starts with education at school as you say.

[MSTRS:Me]

Agree totally..................cyclists jumping reds, car drivers doing same......all starts with education at school as you say.

Gotta be knowing stuff. Commonsense is not an exam subject.....

[swbarnett]

The reason we have speed limits is that a fair percentage of drivers are day-dreaming fuckwits who would drive through the middle of town at 95kmh without even thinking about it if it wasn't for speed limits - or drive down the motorway in their blinged-out night-club-on-wheels at 190kmh and weaving through the 'slower' cars while txting their mate to make sure they'll meet at Maccas in ten minutes.

This has not been born out in countries that have raised speed limits. Also, I'm talking mainly about highway limits. suburban limits need to be raised in some places and reduced in others (mostly as a guide to hidden driveways, schools etc.).

YOU might be a good safe driver but you are paying for those that aren't - you may also be able to drive well with a breath-alcohol level of 680 but you are paying for those that can't......yadda..yadda..yadda..

Exactly my point. Why should I pay for someone else's ineptitude? The police need to judge competence of each driver on a case by case basis.

More "Face to face policing"? - I hope you would be satisfied with the (a) increase in tax (and/or huge fines/costs) to pay for this or (b) put up with less money going into schools/hospitals/social services etc to pay for this.

This is also proving my point. Yes, policing costs money. I don't want more money spent on the police. At the same time I don't want cheap band-aid solutions that 1. don't address the root causes and 2. only fool people into thinking they're safe. We have a choice - either spend more on fair policing or accept the fact that a certain amount of carnage on our roads is inevitable and live with it. Finding scapegoats is morally reprehensible.

[Sanx]

Gotta be knowing stuff. Commonsense is not an exam subject.....

But it should be made one. And for the sake of the gene pool, it should be a big part of the "Permission to Breed 101" exam paper.

For instance...

Q: Your mother is reliant on oxygen for continued survival. She's stopped taking her medication and prefers to rely on traditional remedies and prayer. Because the electricity bill hasn't been paid and you haven't bothered contacting the power company despite numerous bills and warnings being sent, the power has been cut off. Do you:
a) Get you mother to a neighbour and plug in her oxygen machine
b) Call an ambulance
c) Sing hymns to your mother to help her through this difficult time
d) Sit on your fat arse and do nothing

[MSTRS:Me]

E. None of the above. I plan the media campaign with associated fingerpointing, manouevre for the best compensation deal I can get, and take every bit of charity that I can blag from the gullible.