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Thread: Did anyone see Campbell Live on Tuesday night? (28 May)

  1. #16
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    Dynamytus...

    A lot of what you're saying is true. One Clint Rickard doesn't mean the entire Police Force is made up of rapists. However, the majority of the population are likely to come into contact with the Police only as a result of a traffic ticket. NZ's got a population of 4 million, and there are 1.1 million traffic infringements issued per year.

    So, it could be fair to say that most people's impression of the Police is formed by how they perceive their treatment when getting a ticket. No-one likes getting one, but people are far more likely to get pissed off if they feel themselves hard done by. It gets even worse when they have a cop who has absolutely zero evidence to support his claim, but gets believed solely because he's got a shiny badge.

    The point that Kwakerjack raised is valid. Cops should only be able to issue tickets for the speed they've locked in to their radar; not a speed they claim to have seen previously. The radar / laser units should also have clear and readily available audit logs that show when each unit was triggered and what speed it recorded. This would immediately invalidate drivers' claims that the unit was triggered once and the cop continued to issue tickets based upon the readong for the whole day.

    The Police should be encouraging these changes. It demonstrates honesty and openess. It might not change everyone's opinion of the cops, but it would be a good start.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    Fair enough and possibly they should be able to print two copies on the side of the road for the locked speed. Just because at the moment policy is that they dont doesnt mean that the cop didnt write down the correct speed as Kwakerjack said though.
    No ... it doesn't. Obviously a policy that encouraged a bit more openess and demonstrated honesty is unlikely to make the Police any more popular with the hard-core recidivist boy-racer that the Cambell Live was looking at. However, the rest of the population - the moral majority, if you like - might feel a bit less annoyed the next time they get pinged.

    It also seems that traffic offences get treated by the courts differently to more serious offences. Bearing in mind the fundamental principle of the NZ justice system is that you're innocent until proven guilty, there seems to be little in the way of 'proof' presented by the cops in support of most traffic offences. Most arguments come down to the officer's word against the accused, and magistrates seem only to willing to believe cops at face value.

    Should the radar / laser units have audit logs - especially when combined with a camera system - concrete proof could be presented. There would be no argument. And if the cop got it wrong, it would be evident immediately when reviewing evidence.

    Sure, if the cop triggered his radar unit a fraction after the motorist hit his picks, he might get away with a ticket instead of a ban, but surely that slight loss is better than having half the population reset the entire Police force?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    They do have audit logs, they have to be tested each time they are used and the test number written in the log, those are presented in court along with the officers qualifications to run the thing and the vehicles ticket to be able to carry a the radar.
    Ooo. They have audit logs? Interesting. Are these logs capable of showing every time the unit was triggered and what speed it recorded at the time, or are they manual logs that just record dates if testing and dates of use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    I do see what you are saying its just that it comes down to money - to put a printing system into the patrol cars would eat up a huge chunk of the already struggling Police budget. The money from the tickets that are done go to Cullen's massive surplus for god knows what...not the police.
    I wasn't talking about a printing system in the car. I was talking more about the radar / laser unit recording (on internal memory) each time it was fired and what speed it recorded. This log could be downloaded at the end of the day and stored back in the station. Should there be a bun-fight over the speed recorded, the cops could prove beyond doubt that at said time and date, the unit was triggered and recorded said speed. No argument, and no (valid) protest.

    I realise that trying to retro-fit such an audit system could be expensive, but units that contain such a system should be fitted during normal replacement cycles.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    Fucksakes, your niggling over TWO kmh??
    Like what difference is it going to make to the outcome?
    The dork was in a 60kmh area doing 48 OR 50 KMH OVER THE LIMIT = Loss of licence for 28 days in either case.

    And yeah, the cop CAN go by what he saw on the radar, not what he locked on, done it myself when half asleep and the driver hit the picks before I could react and the locked on speed was 4 or so kmh less than what he was doing when the speed first showed on the radar.
    Not niggling over 2kph. Pointing out that a cop's word is not necessarily to be trusted - only takes one bad one to taint the lot eh? The driver was pinged - fine. Speed was such that he should have been walking - fine. (btw I don't agree with this in 100kph areas) I am a little shocked to hear that a locked reading is not reqd when radar/laser is used....what is to stop said cop saying 'I saw 145 on the readout, was a bit slow locking and recorded 139...BUT...I heard the guy's engine note just prior to me seeing him at 145 and he was definitely going much faster, so I'm estimating his speed at 170' ?? Just where do you draw the line? Knowing and proving are two different things.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  5. #20
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    The problem is the radar unit is not supposed to be able to lock unless it has an unambiguous speed. eg if two cars are caught in the beam. So if the cop says he saw 110 that actually means nothing. On the old Hawk which is capable of locking ambiguous speeds he/she must also hear a clear tone. I have got off once because when I checked the reading the cop had the volume turned down so had no way of knowing if the speed reading was valid
    Any car will last you a lifetime, as long as you drive it fast enough

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    Most cops wont lie - i certainly havent ever found any who would lie when it came to evidence.
    Everytime i have been to court with a cop giving evidence agaisnt me, they have lied.

    I have no idea why, but they do - perhaps they want to let me off the charge eh?
    Then I could get a Kb Tshirt, move to Timaru and become a full time crossdressing faggot

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Not niggling over 2kph. Pointing out that a cop's word is not necessarily to be trusted - only takes one bad one to taint the lot eh? The driver was pinged - fine. Speed was such that he should have been walking - fine. (btw I don't agree with this in 100kph areas) I am a little shocked to hear that a locked reading is not reqd when radar/laser is used....what is to stop said cop saying 'I saw 145 on the readout, was a bit slow locking and recorded 139...BUT...I heard the guy's engine note just prior to me seeing him at 145 and he was definitely going much faster, so I'm estimating his speed at 170' ?? Just where do you draw the line? Knowing and proving are two different things.
    Good comment - but I give tickets for crossing solid yellow line, failing to keep left etc and there's NO record of those offences being committed, unlike with radar where at least there's a readout on the dash.

    And as far as "not agreeing with this in a 100kph area" - are you meaning somebody doing 165kph on the open road should just get a speed ticket, not be instantly disqualified? I certainly hope that's not what you mean.

    BTW While people moan about the amount of tickets being written out they conveniently forget about compliance ticket, some days 50% of mine are that catagory, = no revenue for Sir Helen for those ones.
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    ..... I certainly hope that's not what you mean.....
    Ah, you know me too well young sir. Time and a place, and all that.....
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    -. One day you will wake up and the frontline cops like me will have thrown the towel in because were so bitter. .
    many of us already have. only 3 left off my wing of 48 from 1991. and we were a good bunch of bastards too.

    and we're much better off for it. i haven't been spat on, punched or stabbed, and no-one's killed themselves on my shift in 3 years!

    i miss it, but i wouldn't go back.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    __________________________________________________ __________


    Details?
    why? i could give u his badge number and email addy but he would only be out ta get me even more.

    u cant win vs the police (out side of court that is)
    Then I could get a Kb Tshirt, move to Timaru and become a full time crossdressing faggot

  11. #26
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    i have seen cars push 200+ down t straight, i have done uh...well, near that...

  12. #27
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    well the cops that pulled me over were FKN useles!
    400m became aproxamatley 2km..
    and in the ride they gave me to their station they were doing 140 in a 80 area.
    of course me being 17 and out and about at 3am and them being 2 fine officers of the law ment that in court i had a bit of explaining to do.....

    get fucked course i lost my licence and got no chance of ever getting insurance again.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamytus50 View Post
    Why is because you made a statement anut Police integrity and i feel its only fair you back it up??
    Quite, Renegade. You should. Don't give the badge number of email address - just detail what went on.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdooher View Post
    The problem is the radar unit is not supposed to be able to lock unless it has an unambiguous speed. eg if two cars are caught in the beam. So if the cop says he saw 110 that actually means nothing. On the old Hawk which is capable of locking ambiguous speeds he/she must also hear a clear tone. I have got off once because when I checked the reading the cop had the volume turned down so had no way of knowing if the speed reading was valid
    Fair call... no tone, = no ticket!

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