Fair call for a barrier but cheese grater?

[Hitcher]

It will take a massive effort to convince policy-makers in LTNZ and Transit (and through them to the politicians) as to the evils of cheese-cutter barrier. Their priorities are to make it easier for inept car drivers to get from A to B without killing each other. They are not interested in addressing the root causes of road safety. They are only interested in people driving "to the conditions" and preventing them from impacting other road users at the least possible cost.

[vifferman]

True.
We have to remember that bureaucrats and politicians aren't like normal humanbeanz.

[Hitcher]

True.
We have to remember that bureaucrats and politicians aren't like normal humanbeanz.

Unfortunately. But ultimately they're the ones who decide whether or not cheesecutter stays or goes.

[vifferman]

Unfortunately. But ultimately they're the ones who decide whether or not cheesecutter stays or goes.

That was sort of my point; with normal humanbeanz subject to normal (understandable?) emotions and logic, you could appeal to their feelings, sense of fairness, whatever motivates them.
Like this: You (the Gubmint) have determined that for accounting purposes, a human life is worth $3.05million. The difference between cheese cutters and cheese cutters with deluxe wraps is $x/100m, which equate to y dead motorcyclists.

But for politicians, it's more complicated, as they have to factor in public perception (do people really give a stuff, and if so, which ones, and do they matter?), how much spin can be doctored for each decision, how many votes are at risk (if any), blah blah blah.
For your bureaucrat, it's more a question of balancing budgets, how much paperwork is involved, how will it affect my chances of promotion, does it give me more/less power, can I have a new PC, wonder what's on telly tonight....

[idb]

It will take a massive effort to convince policy-makers in LTNZ and Transit (and through them to the politicians) as to the evils of cheese-cutter barrier. Their priorities are to make it easier for inept car drivers to get from A to B without killing each other. They are not interested in addressing the root causes of road safety. They are only interested in people driving "to the conditions" and preventing them from impacting other road users at the least possible cost.

The EU has put in place a policy that all future road barriers must take motorcycle safety into account.

If these authorities were only interested in people "driving to the conditions" wouldn't the erection of barriers be un-necessary?

[Hitcher]

If these authorities were only interested in people "driving to the conditions" wouldn't the erection of barriers be un-necessary?

Many European countries have enlightened governments that actively support advanced driver skills programmes. New Zealand, on the other hand, has officials that are vehemently opposed to such courses.

It would be interesting to see what happened to New Zealand's road toll if all road markings and warning signs were removed, along with seat belts and airbags, automatic transmissions, ABS brakes and steel-belted radials. In other words making motorists more responsible for their own health and safety and, by abstraction, the health and safety of other road users.

[jrandom]

automatic transmissions...

You can take the automatic transmission in my Camry from my cold, dead hands, right after you get my latte and cellphone.

[Hitcher]

You can take the automatic transmission in my Camry from my cold, dead hands, right after you get my latte and cellphone.

Aucklander.

[Mental Trousers]

Aucklander.

Correction: J.A.F.A.

[idb]

Many European countries have enlightened governments that actively support advanced driver skills programmes. New Zealand, on the other hand, has officials that are vehemently opposed to such courses.

Surely you're not suggesting that there is a train full of gravy on which some are riding at the expense of the rest of the travelling public?!

[Pixie]

Would this tragedy been any less fatal if there had been NO barrier? Who knows.

This accident?

At 3:30 AM on the southern end of the motorway, most probably it would be scuffed gear and possibly riding bike home.

[Hitcher]

Surely you're not suggesting that there is a train full of gravy on which some are riding at the expense of the rest of the travelling public?!

No. I am suggesting that there are bunch of officials who believe that improving the skills and standards of drivers/riders, merely encourages them to drive/ride faster and that this is evel (sic) and should not be condoned or encouraged.

[Reckless]

It will take a massive effort to convince policy-makers in LTNZ and Transit (and through them to the politicians) as to the evils of cheese-cutter barrier. Their priorities are to make it easier for inept car drivers to get from A to B without killing each other. They are not interested in addressing the root causes of road safety. They are only interested in people driving "to the conditions" and preventing them from impacting other road users at the least possible cost.

I'm not directly questioning you or your quote Hitch but using it as an example and agree with you.

"driving to the conditions" and this is part of my beef with the authorities.

There is a hell of a lota blame put on drivers/riders within that phrase. But when are the powers that be, going to be held responsible for "conditions" that are simply so far below standard that they are dangerous no matter who you are or how you drive!
Case in point and my pet hate! the punched down under chip and exposed tar. Its slippery when its melted in the hot sun, quite tractable when its dry and at the correct temp for the tyres, and like ice, in ever changing patches, when its wet. And there is thousands of miles of it everywhere. In the wet you can loose traction on this smooth glossy surface in an instant and for no apparent reason. Becuase the surface changes constantly as you drive over it depending on the amount of glossy tar exposed. I question any general cage driver to judge how to drive on that surface in any of the above conditions, especially in the wet.
So sooner or later someone has gotta get their head out of the sand and say the road conditions on that particular corner caused this accident. But it all gets blamed on speed and Drive to the conditions. Therefore we get cheese graters to keep us in our lanes not decent road surfaces to keep us safer!
Because no ones accountable or has the guts to challenge the above. There is no safety margin left!! And thats half the reason why we are dying.

[swbarnett]

So... you would rather no barriers and risk a head-on eh?

Yep. Got more chance of avoiding a vehicle than the barrier. Even if you hit you've got a better chance of survival.

A case in point - Katana 750 doing 230km/h on a dead straight road had a front tyre blow, swerved into the path of an oncoming car (the only one on the road). The rider managed to almost jump the car and got away with only broken legs on the upper windscreen. A couple of months in traction and he was riding again. Doubtful he would've survived if there was a wire barrier.

[scumdog]

Yep. Got more chance of avoiding a vehicle than the barrier. Even if you hit you've got a better chance of survival.

A case in point - Katana 750 doing 230km/h on a dead straight road had a front tyre blow, swerved into the path of an oncoming car (the only one on the road). The rider managed to almost jump the car and got away with only broken legs on the upper windscreen. A couple of months in traction and he was riding again. Doubtful he would've survived if there was a wire barrier.

And then there was the much publicised (on KB) event a few months ago when a drunk driver crossed the centre-line of the road and hit a pack of motorcyclists and killed two.
A good chance a cheese-cutter would have prevented THAT event being as tragic as it was.

Balance grasshopper, balance....