Fingerprints

**ManDownUnder** · 2nd July 2007, 12:50

Originally Posted by craigs288

So even though I have some rights, if I try to exercise them I could end up getting mucked around, and my life made more difficult because I won't meekly comply with every new rule.
So your government has a police force that can detain and harass me at any time, more so if I don't agree with what they are telling me to do, even if I am not a criminal and their database and the details I give prove I've done nothing wrong?
Just because they say jump, and I don't say "how high"?

No - my point is you DON'T have the right to ask for the Police Officer's name address etc etc etc. Walk in their shoes for a secong. A bad bastard, known for "exacting revenge:" on those he doesn't like is stopped at a check point... get's the name and address of the Police Officer then stops by later that night with a 12 gauge.

Good move.

The cops need your details in the course of their duties. It's their job to do stuff that involves tracking people and making sure they can be contacted or found.

I'm guessing that's not a prerequisite for your job (or personal life...).

Correct me if I'm wrong...

**ManDownUnder** · 2nd July 2007, 12:51

Originally Posted by craigs288

I realise the police aren't mind readers, which is why I don't mind stopping to give my details. Especially since I am not a criminal.
But I'm not a mind reader, which is why the police shouldn't mind giving their details. Especially if they are not criminals.

Is there any reason the police officer could not place their finger in their own fingerprint scanner? It wouldn't make sense for the public to have to pay for another database and another finger print scanning system when there is already one they have paid for that the police use.
I could listen to any details coming back over the 'tax-paid-for' radio. I would assume that there wouldn't be a match (much like myself) because their fingerprints aren't in the database, because they haven't committed a crime. I would be quite happy to let them go about their business.

Na mate - now you're being a clown...

**craigs288** · 2nd July 2007, 13:02

If I was being a clown, I would be wearing big shoes, a red nose and be getting caught on camera in par-liar-ment sleeping, swearing and giving the finger to people, all while being paid in excess of $2000 a week, plus expenses.

I like the police, I just f%^cking hate all those unelected politicians and the dumb-ass laws they come up with.

**ManDownUnder** · 2nd July 2007, 13:04

Originally Posted by craigs288

If I was being a clown, I would be wearing big shoes, a red nose and be getting caught on camera in par-liar-ment sleeping, swearing and giving the finger to people, all while being paid in excess of $2000 a week, plus expenses.

I like the police, I just f%^cking hate all those unelected politicians and the dumb-ass laws they come up with.

LOL fair call.

Problem is I think there's a little more background you need to the laws before you go slating them as unfair.

Ask any of the Police in here why it's a dumb idea to hand out their identity to anyone. I think you'll find they're not on the electoral roll, in the phone book or in a number of other public documents... and all for good reason. So they and their families can sleep at night.

**craigs288** · 2nd July 2007, 13:06

Ixion sent a link to the site where you can make submissions about changes to the policing act. You get to type down everything that's on your mind, and then it says to click on the submit button at the bottom of the page...

but wait for it,.... there is no button.

**ManDownUnder** · 2nd July 2007, 13:12

Originally Posted by craigs288

Ixion sent a link to the site where you can make submissions about changes to the policing act. You get to type down everything that's on your mind, and then it says to click on the submit button at the bottom of the page...

but wait for it,.... there is no button.

What's the link?

**Deviant Esq** · 2nd July 2007, 13:27

Originally Posted by Hitcher

(thanks to the heal-prick records taken from babies born in New Zealand)

Nobody picked this this little gem from Hitcher? Come on, got to take every opportunity you get! Sorry Hitch, but if the general populace can get nabbed for the occasional innocent slip... I know you know it's heel, just thought I'd dig mine in!

The fingerprinting thing? What a debate. Personally I agree with Scumdog and the others' point of view. Don't be a conspiricy theorist or a doomsayer, woe is me, stand up for the little man... the job the Police do I wouldn't wish on anyone. They don't have my fingerprints on file, but even if they did I wouldn't be worried about it. They won't be using the roadside print machine on me anyway even if they do pull me over - I always carry my licence - so why would I care? Anything that gives the Police a higher chance of reprimanding real criminals faster without sacrificing any of my rights (I don't believe this does since I doubt I'll be required to thumb print anyway as I mentioned above) gets my vote. The police will then have more time to take care of the things we really hate - P making a mess of our country, drunk drivers killing us, etc.

**Deviant Esq** · 2nd July 2007, 13:32

Originally Posted by craigs288

If I was being a clown, I would be wearing big shoes, a red nose and be getting caught on camera in par-liar-ment sleeping, swearing and giving the finger to people, all while being paid in excess of $2000 a week, plus expenses.

I like the police, I just f%^cking hate all those unelected politicians and the dumb-ass laws they come up with.

LOL, hit the nail square on the head! The amount of bills that get pushed through that practically the whole country disagrees with... Sue Bradford anybody? Definitely earned bling for that post mate.

**avgas** · 2nd July 2007, 13:52

I think everyones fingerprint should be on system. I wear gloves.

Originally Posted by craigs288

Ixion sent a link to the site where you can make submissions about changes to the policing act. You get to type down everything that's on your mind, and then it says to click on the submit button at the bottom of the page...
but wait for it,.... there is no button.

Its like trying to complain about benefit fraud in NZ.......do a Google and see how little info there is on it. Even on the winz site there is nothing.

Originally Posted by craigs288

Are there extra grants available to me if I did have a conviction and gang association? What about if I was from a certain ethnic background that the government feels needs extra funding based on race, because they have a higher proportion of lazy asses who can't be f&*ked getting off their asses to work hard and create a decent life for themselves.

Thats the artists benefit/scholarship your talking about. Contact the local Winz office. 50K a year ok to you?

**Patrick** · 2nd July 2007, 14:01

Originally Posted by craigs288

Do I have to have a criminal conviction to become a dole bludger?

Huh???

Originally Posted by craigs288

If I was being a clown, I would be wearing big shoes, a red nose and be getting caught on camera in par-liar-ment sleeping, swearing and giving the finger to people, all while being paid in excess of $2000 a week, plus expenses.

I like the police, I just f%^cking hate all those unelected politicians and the dumb-ass laws they come up with.

From rambling posts to an absolute pearler...!!!

Originally Posted by craigs288

Ixion sent a link to the site where you can make submissions about changes to the policing act. You get to type down everything that's on your mind, and then it says to click on the submit button at the bottom of the page...

but wait for it,.... there is no button.

Bummer... but I laughed when I read this one... funny... (seriously....!!!)

Originally Posted by Deviant Esq

They won't be using the roadside print machine on me anyway even if they do pull me over - I always carry my licence - so why would I care? Anything that gives the Police a higher chance of reprimanding real criminals faster without sacrificing any of my rights (I don't believe this does since I doubt I'll be required to thumb print anyway as I mentioned above) gets my vote. The police will then have more time to take care of the things we really hate - P making a mess of our country, drunk drivers killing us, etc.

As far as I know Devo, they might put yours through on the off chance that your prints have been located at some crime scene, somewhere, sometime... but being a cleanskin, there were no matches... until now?

But that is our business, that of locating and catching crooks. Some on here think chicken little is running amok but all it really is, is another tool to catch bad guys, nothing more, no conspiracy theory, nada.....

**craigs288** · 2nd July 2007, 15:17

Originally Posted by avgas

Thats the artists benefit/scholarship your talking about. Contact the local Winz office. 50K a year ok to you?

50K sounds good. Do I need to have any evidence of artistic ability though?
Mind you, by the time they take out my child support, it will be equivalent to the pittance I earn now

**spudchucka** · 2nd July 2007, 16:11

Originally Posted by craigs288

If I was pulled over at a checkpoint and the officer checked my WOF and Rego, Driver's Licence and ask me to breathe my name and address into the breathalyser, and then they also want me to provide finger prints, do I have the right to ask the officer to provide me with similar details.

I mean, if I am expected to front up with all those personal details when I have obviously done nothing wrong, obviously I am not a criminal. But the police aren't mind readers and a criminal would lie.
But I'm not a mind reader either and how do I know it is really a police officer, when it could be a criminal posing as a police officer to try and steal my identity, or gain information to aid them for a later burgling of my property.
If the police officer had nothing to hide then they wouldn't have any problem providing me with all their details, like the ones they expect from me. They might feel I am invading their privacy. But are they not like the government ministers and all other government employees. Paid for by my taxes and employed to serve me and all other tax paying New Zealanders. I would be asking an employee of mine to provide their personal details. It would have nothing to do with whether they have committed a crime or plan to in the future. I'm just trying to build a database of all my police that I employ.

1: The Land Transport Act says that if you are a driver of a motor vehicle on a road then you have to provide those details when requested.

2: There is no legislation that requires the police officer that is dealing with you to provide their personal details.

3: By all means ask but don't be offended when are politely told to go get f%$ked.

**spudchucka** · 2nd July 2007, 16:18

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

What's the link?

http://www.policeact.govt.nz/consultation/

**civil** · 2nd July 2007, 20:18

Originally Posted by civil

However you need to realsie that by 'Driving' you are doing a criminal act, otherwise you would not need a 'licence' now would you?

LICENSE, contracts. A right given by some competent authority to do an act, which without such authority would be illegal. The instrument or writing which secures this right, is also called a license. Bouvier's Law Dictionary.

So can anyone see why it is you need a Licence to Drive?

Also Spud, when you pull me over and ask for my name, do you want my legal or lawful name? There is a difference so which one do you want?

**spudchucka** · 2nd July 2007, 21:38

Originally Posted by civil

So can anyone see why it is you need a Licence to Drive?

Also Spud, when you pull me over and ask for my name, do you want my legal or lawful name? There is a difference so which one do you want?

1: Land Transport Act 1998, Section 5(1)(a).

2: I don't want your name, or your phone number either so quit hitting on me ya weirdo!