Media personality

[spudchucka]

Like the Police Assn. man said on the Holmes show, the resources are being poured in to traffic in order to retain the funding. This is at the expense of general duties policing, like theft, burglaries etc (unless the victim is a mason??).

If Lou can write a letter to fix that, I will nominate him for President of the Republic of UnZud.

Thats not entirely accurate because the money for each area comes from different sources. Traffic branch gets money from ACC, LTSA etc etc etc to provide X amount of road policing. They are accountable for the hours delivered, as in they are paid to deliver X amount but if they only deliver Z amount then funding is effected. General duties gets money direct from the Govt, the amount is fixed in the budget and if funds dry up then stiff shit. This has happened several times when there have been a run of high profile homicide enquiries that have sucked up all the available funds. The general duties cops have been in a position where they cant even get a replacement shirt because funds have dried up.

Police managers, LTSA, ACC, Govt etc etc all love road policing because it is so measurable. Funds available / hours delivered / tickets issued / cars impounded / drink drivers caught etc etc are all easily measurable and provide a great system for measuring police performance. To do the same with general duties policing would be next to impossible because it has so many different sides to it. Nothing is clear cut like it is with road policing, otherwise we might see the Insurance Council or some other entity getting behind the police with funding like LTSA & ACC have with road policing.

[marty]

and don't forget that the police have to tender for the $ supplied by the LTSA/ACC/TLA each year - that's how some local body govts can run their own enforcement, as they pay their own people to do the parking tickets etc, taking some of the $ out of the TLA budget - the police are just the best set-up (legislatively and policy-wise) at the moment for enforcment.

[What?]

The general duties cops have been in a position where they cant even get a replacement shirt because funds have dried up.

I don't doubt it. Pretty sad really.

What the PA dude was getting at was that general duties cops were out bolstering traffic enforcement, at the expense of property crime work, because maintaining the traffic funding requires alot more ticketing than the funding/hours agreement reasonably allows for. I have no idea if this is actually true, but it certainly ties in well with Joe Public's perception of the modern police force.

What makes me really sad, is this: I know a lot of cops. Good guys, dedicated to their chosen line of work, who are becoming very disillusioned with the job now because of the policies dictated from (way) above.

[spudchucka]

What the PA dude was getting at was that general duties cops were out bolstering traffic enforcement, at the expense of property crime work, because maintaining the traffic funding requires alot more ticketing than the funding/hours agreement reasonably allows for. I have no idea if this is actually true, but it certainly ties in well with Joe Public's perception of the modern police force.

Its pretty much true. General duties branch cops get allocated traffic hours and they are expected to deliver them and the delivery is usually part of performance appraisals. In my experience as a GDB cop the traffic hours usually get delivered between other jobs, picking up speeders between burglary complaints etc. They also attend traffic crashes, which suck up a lot of time and because they involve risk to life they take priority over other jobs. If you end up getting involved in a serious matter or a messy sudden death then that is often your entire shift accounted for so the traffic hours just don't get done. However on Friday & Saturday nights there is always an abundance of idiots out hooning around and driving home drunk, so sometimes the traffic gets done sometimes it doesn't. Personally I don't worry about it too much, I get done what I can and deal with traffic matters as the present themselves, occasionally I find the time to actively target traffic but this would be the exception, not the rule.

What makes me really sad, is this: I know a lot of cops. Good guys, dedicated to their chosen line of work, who are becoming very disillusioned with the job now because of the policies dictated from (way) above.

Yep, its happening alot these days. However to me it comes down to the cops attitude and whether they want to let it get to them or just get on with the job. The police is an organisation that rellies largely on the good will of its staff and although cops get disillusioned and pissed off with the top brass they continue doing the job because it is what they want to do. Very few join for the money because they are bright people and have done the maths before they join, most join because they want to do the job and this keeps them going through the times when they are getting pissed off. The bosses know this and they exploit it to their advantage.

[scumdog]

And the propaganda we get is "it costs more in dollars for a two car injury crash than a dwelling burglary so it is better putting the money and effort into preventing crashes than preventing burglaries" - or something very similar.

Still better than being on a benefit and who would the public hate if cops did not exist? - see, we have a reason for being here!!!!

[Marmoot]

Thats not entirely accurate because the money for each area comes from different sources. Traffic branch gets money from ACC, LTSA etc etc etc to provide X amount of road policing. They are accountable for the hours delivered, as in they are paid to deliver X amount but if they only deliver Z amount then funding is effected. General duties gets money direct from the Govt, the amount is fixed in the budget and if funds dry up then stiff shit. This has happened several times when there have been a run of high profile homicide enquiries that have sucked up all the available funds. The general duties cops have been in a position where they cant even get a replacement shirt because funds have dried up.

Hang on.....so, Spud, are you saying that although it is only one Body (NZ Police) they are actually still operating totally separate from each other?
So, what the f*ck do we get the MoT and Police merged for then?
Why not keep them separate as they were?
I think it would be easier for us to hold the government accountable for any failings if the MoT and Police were still separate from each other, right? Or is this the exact reasoning for merging them in the first place?

[spudchucka]

Hang on.....so, Spud, are you saying that although it is only one Body (NZ Police) they are actually still operating totally separate from each other?
So, what the f*ck do we get the MoT and Police merged for then?
Why not keep them separate as they were?
I think it would be easier for us to hold the government accountable for any failings if the MoT and Police were still separate from each other, right? Or is this the exact reasoning for merging them in the first place?

You will have to ask John Banks the exact reason for the merger. He promised the public 1000 more police officers and then once elected he promptly told the MOT that they were all to retrain and become police officers. Sure the public got more cops but many of them didn't want to be there or weren't the types that you would want there. Some have gone on to make very good police officers and many of them are now Superintendants and Inspectors, the very people who now make the decisions on policy and resource allocation. Ask yourself why things appear fucked up at times!

They aren't really separate entities within the same organisation, although it does feel like that at times, the funding and allocation of resources is the issue I was commenting on. There is cross over between traffic and general duties but it tends to be the GDB getting lumbered with additional traffic hours. Dedicated traffic units do help out when things turn to puss but they are very quick to hand over any criminal matters to GDB satff because their bosses will kick their butts if they aren't out on the road doing what they are supposed to be doing.

[Marmoot]

hmm.....I think that just changed my view on cops in general

[riffer]

hmm.....I think that just changed my view on cops in general

Yeah, amazing how differently you get it from the other side isn't it.

Thanks for setting the record straight, Spud

[spudchucka]

Yeah, amazing how differently you get it from the other side isn't it.

Thanks for setting the record straight, Spud

No worries, there is so much miss-information that flies around about anything to do with police these days. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but often the very strong anti opinions are based on incorrect assumptions.

Being a cop is a great job, I have some really good times and a hell of a lot of laughs. It can be stressful at times and there are always things about it that you don't like but that is true of any job. The best thing about it is that no two days are the same. I had a day recently when I've started at 0600 on a Sunday morning and ten minutes later I'm aiming a firearm at someone armed with a huge knife, you never know what will greet you each day. Then there are the feel good jobs such as finding lost kids - they keep you going on a high for ages.

[scumdog]

Yeah, amazing how differently you get it from the other side isn't it.

Thanks for setting the record straight, Spud

I can understand people being p... off when they have had a run in with a cop that is say, less than tactful and personality challenged, but as I have said to a few, if you get a bit of bad service from the Mount Grand Caltex do you bad mouth ALL service stations? and bad mouth ALL Caltex service stations? and bad mouth ALL the pump-jockeys at the Mount Grand Caltex? - most likely not, - so apply that to run-ins with others in your life eh?

[duckman]

I think the Police will always be an easy target for people's frustrations, and I'm sure we would all like it if they had the money and the resources to protect the things we have and love... unfortunately this will never be the case .... Keep up the good job Spud....

[Motu]

You will have to ask John Banks the exact reason for the merger. He promised the public 1000 more police officers and then once elected he promptly told the MOT that they were all to retrain and become police officers. Sure the public got more cops but many of them didn't want to be there or weren't the types that you would want there. Some have gone on to make very good police officers and many of them are now Superintendants and Inspectors, the very people who now make the decisions on policy and resource allocation. Ask yourself why things appear fucked up at times!

Our local Traffic Cop became a Policeman,and a few years later disapeared without a trace - I hope he was put in a nice prison,his type get the worst treatment from everyone there...ex cop or not.

[Lou Girardin]

I'm amused at the way the members of some occupations demonise other branches of that occupation.
It used to be said that those of us in the Motorway Unit were ticket hungry posers that didn't do 'real' Traffic work. Recently it has been the ex-MOT cops at the root of all Police problems. Now it's the HP cops giving the others a bad name. Ignoring the fact that the HP cops couldn't possibly write even half the number of tickets being issued.
Something that Spud didn't mention was the effect that INCIS had on the force. The top brass thought that INCIS would reduce the need for lower to middle ranking supervisors. In addition, reducing their ranks freed up the budget to pay for INCIS.
The chickens have now come home to roost. INCIS died, and we now have numbers of poorly trained and ill-supervised recruits on the streets. This has led to record numbers of cops being charged with rape, theft, street brawling, various driving offences, etc. All the problems facing the Police today are of their own doing. And until the rank and file stand up publicly to denounce current policies, as they've done in the UK, the public will continue to believe that they support the predation on ordinary citizens in the interest of grabbing revenue.
They'll be regarded accordingly.

[spudchucka]

I'm amused at the way the members of some occupations demonise other branches of that occupation.

Just as some ex members of a proffesion turn feral and demonise the current members of the same proffesion. Whats the difference? Whats your point?

Recently it has been the ex-MOT cops at the root of all Police problems.

You are a bit prone to exageration there chap. All I've said is that some ex MOT's are now in positions involving policy and budget decision making. No one has said they are to blame for all the police problems.

Now it's the HP cops giving the others a bad name. Ignoring the fact that the HP cops couldn't possibly write even half the number of tickets being issued.

How can you possibly back that up?

Something that Spud didn't mention was the effect that INCIS had on the force. The top brass thought that INCIS would reduce the need for lower to middle ranking supervisors. In addition, reducing their ranks freed up the budget to pay for INCIS.

INCIS was intended to be a lot more than just that. It was a huge stuff up and cost some people their jobs, it probably should have cost a lot more people their jobs too. Whats left of it has worked out be be a pretty good application and is slowly replacing the old Wanganui system.

The chickens have now come home to roost. INCIS died, and we now have numbers of poorly trained and ill-supervised recruits on the streets.

Its no secret that a lot of experience has gone from the police and if INCIS is to blame its mainly because of the vacum in funding that the whole screw up left in its wake. Long serving cops just got fed up and left due to the frustrations following the whole afair. Shit happens, life goes on.

This has led to record numbers of cops being charged with rape, theft, street brawling, various driving offences, etc.

What are the numbers Lou? This is just another of your general sweeping statements with absolutely no substance or back up figures. You are simply using current events in a vain attempt to back up what is a statement with absolutely no substance.

All the problems facing the Police today are of their own doing. And until the rank and file stand up publicly to denounce current policies, as they've done in the UK, the public will continue to believe that they support the predation on ordinary citizens in the interest of grabbing revenue.

You are right, the police should take ownership of their own problems. However the problems are no where near as monumental as you would make out. Most people don't have the blind obsession that you apparently have and to all the normal people out there whatever problems they are aware of are of little concern to them.

They'll be regarded accordingly.

Thats fine because as stated above the majority of normal people do actually support the police,contrary to what you would have people believe.