Waioeka Gorge reduced to 80km

[Hitcher]

I think that all of these roads where Transit feels compelled to lower the speed limit to improve their safety would be made safer if the limits were raised to, say, 120kmh. On that basis people should concentrate harder and take more care than they would nerdling along at 80kmh. I suggest they do a trial, starting with Centennial Highway.

[Holy Roller]

Perhaps some of the dozy twonks should start reading stuff like this

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html


I like the "unrealistically slow" comment about advisory signs - aint that the truth! I think they are all set by what a 1954 Austin A40 can comfortably lurch around ......

Arn't the signs set to allow for the worst conditions and type of vechicle ie a truck in the wet fully loaded taking into account camber and degree of turn in the corner not for your bog standard Ford or Holden let alone a super modified sticky tyred crotch rocket singing a sweet tune from the zorst.

[janno]

In Aus the speed signs for corners are for fully laden trucks, not meant for car drivers at all.

I thought NZ was the same.

Over 50kph signs I ad 20k. Under 50kph I find that speed fairly accurate for my style of riding and driving, unless I know the road exceptionally well and then judge it on past experience.

[rustys]

F##K, there goes my Race track practise strip, no the road backwards, best piece road in the country on a motorcycle, "as long as you ride to the conditions in there". Boy will i be at that meeting Monday night. Hate riding it at night now since they have put up all those big signs, they bloody dazzel the shit out of you with your lights on high beam, can hardly see where the road goes.
If it ends up at 80klm i'll go to sleep, probably end up over a bank somewhere, from the bottom of Traffords hill to Opotiki normally 25 min burst of fun on the R6.
Most of the accidents in there generally occur in bad conditions, and people not driving to them.
I have lived my whole life between Opotiki and Gisborne, love both places, can't understand some dumb twat trying to do this to us?
Go and give my two cents worth Monday.
Thanks "Brutus" for letting us in on whats happening

[Chrislost]

Pah. Only halfway to redline in first!!

+ 1
i think the wheel is only just coming up at that

[rustys]

BIG DEAL THAT WAS, so much for that meeting, went down in the pouring rain, few posters on the wall etc planing on what the're proposing, couple dudes there from "Transit" and "Opus".
About 40 people in attendance, from trucking firms to general tin top drivers and a few of the two wheel lads there. In general most were opposed to the restrictions, so fill out the form, yes or no, drop it in the box, and that was it.
Local paper guys were there and got told in no uncertain terms that those who were there wer'nt happy with the way things were being done. No one from the Transport dept were there, but have been told that they are not interested anyway.
So we will see what eventuates here? Give you's a report when the paper comes out tomorrow.
Cheers

[Sanx]

I think the official response goes something like this:

"Thank you for your concerns. They have been duly noted and will be filed. We have a commitment to consult with the public and we take this very seriously. We have consulted. We do not, however, have a commitment to listen; and we haven't.

Regards,

The Mad Mullahs of Land Transport New Zealand."

[cooneyr]

Corner speed ADVISORY (not compulsory) speed signs are generally set so that the at the advised speed there is 0.2g sideways. Different vehicles respond differently to sideways G's (obviously) but using this method the corner advisory speed signs should be consistent for similar corner speeds.

I'm a Engineer and what I find interesting (worrying) about this is that in the Gizy herald there are these three points

Loss of control was generally a factor, as well as driving too fast for the conditions, poor observation, handling judgement and fatigue.

(too fast for the conditions is another way of saying loss of control)

Areas with asphalt and low skid resistance had been resurfaced with chip seal and rest areas were improved.

and

The statistics showed a significant drop in accidents for 2005 and Mayor Meng Foon and Bill Burdett both asked if a reduced speed limit was necessary in light of the improved figures.

Mr Govender said crashes often hit a lull for a while after road improvements, but Transit preferred to look at trends rather than on a one off year.

I'm assuming that the chip seal was laid before 2005 in the following.

These points i.e. loss of control is a primary factor, areas of asphalt that have been chipsealed (skid resistance improved) and a drop in crashes since the chipseal has been laid.

I would seriously suggest that the skid resistance of the surfacing is a far more important factor than human error. They should be improving the skid resistance of a number of the key corners, not doing anything for 3 to 5 years , reassessing the crash rates and then if necessary looking at other measures.

Cheers R

[clint640]

Corner speed ADVISORY (not compulsory) speed signs are generally set so that the at the advised speed there is 0.2g sideways. Different vehicles respond differently to sideways G's (obviously) but using this method the corner advisory speed signs should be consistent for similar corner speeds.

Has this 0.2g level always been the mark? Over the last couple of years I've encountered some corners newly posted as 35 or 45 that seemed ridiculous - even the aforementioned 1954 A40 could do near 100 around them.

The gorge used to have only a few 35 corners, now despite many improvements there seem to be a lot more???

Cheers
Clint

[cooneyr]

Has this 0.2g level always been the mark? Over the last couple of years I've encountered some corners newly posted as 35 or 45 that seemed ridiculous - even the aforementioned 1954 A40 could do near 100 around them.

The gorge used to have only a few 35 corners, now despite many improvements there seem to be a lot more???

Cheers
Clint

It "use" to be the case but maybe they are trying to be "clever" and take into account skid resistance etc.

They uses to use a sideways thrust gauge which is two pieces of perspex with a parabolic ish curve grooved into the back of one of them then they are stuck together so that the groove is sealed except for the two ends i.e. forms a tube. The tube is filled with water, a ball bearing put in it and the ends sealed. When you go around a corner the ball bearing moves up the grove and the scale is read.

Was kinda fun trying to get the readings if you are on your own as you are trying to read the scale and drive a corner at the same time and sometimes you have no idea how fast the corner should be i.e. can be going far to fast

This whole saga seems a little bit weird to me.

Kaikoura coast near the tunnels went through a similar exercise but the stupid thing is that cars have no troubles but trucks keep falling off. Cant just slow trucks down cause cars end up the trucks arse worse so blank 80kph was applied. This was nothing to do with skid resistance though and I agree with the 80kph even though was lots of fun at 100kph.

Cheers R

[Clivoris]

BIG DEAL THAT WAS, so much for that meeting, went down in the pouring rain, few posters on the wall etc planing on what the're proposing, couple dudes there from "Transit" and "Opus".
About 40 people in attendance, from trucking firms to general tin top drivers and a few of the two wheel lads there. In general most were opposed to the restrictions, so fill out the form, yes or no, drop it in the box, and that was it.
Local paper guys were there and got told in no uncertain terms that those who were there wer'nt happy with the way things were being done. No one from the Transport dept were there, but have been told that they are not interested anyway.
So we will see what eventuates here? Give you's a report when the paper comes out tomorrow.
Cheers

Top marks for going anyway mate.

[Hitcher]

Kaikoura coast near the tunnels went through a similar exercise but the stupid thing is that cars have no troubles but trucks keep falling off. Cant just slow trucks down cause cars end up the trucks arse worse so blank 80kph was applied. This was nothing to do with skid resistance though and I agree with the 80kph even though was lots of fun at 100kph.

Is it a mandatory requirement that "road safety engineers" must be barking-mad twats?

Any driver/rider, of trucks or any motorised vehicle, who thinks that travelling at the legal speed limit (irrespective of road conditions) is a mandatory requirement, deserves to plummet to their doom. Simple Darwinism. Caution, may contain hot liquid.

[cooneyr]

Is it a mandatory requirement that "road safety engineers" must be barking-mad twats?

Any driver/rider, of trucks or any motorised vehicle, who thinks that travelling at the legal speed limit (irrespective of road conditions) is a mandatory requirement, deserves to plummet to their doom. Simple Darwinism. Caution, may contain hot liquid.

I'm not a road safety engineer so I wouldn't know

I agree with the comments about mandatory requirement to travel at the posted limit - thats plain stupid in some situations, a challenge in others and utterly boring in others. Simple solution - learn how to read the road and "drive to the conditions if they change reduce you speed" (are we ever allowed to speed up!?)

Cheers R

[rustys]

Back on the case. Meeting a "roadshow" reports the "Gissy herald" today.

Between 1999 and 2004 Transit recorded 11 fatalities in the Gorge. Well over $3 million-worth of safety works had been done since then and there had been only one fatality from 2004 until so far this year.

Displays presented last night showed between 1997 and 2004 there were 108 crashes in the gorge. The reasons for them were,
1 LOSS OF CONTROL 77 percent
2 ICY OR WET CONDITIONS 53 percent
3 HITTING THE BANK OR RIVER 49 percent
4 INVOLVMENT OF TRUCKS 20 percent
5 FAILURE TO KEEP LEFT 9 percent

The level of local opposition did not suprise Daya Govinder Transit NewZealands central district area engineer.

Not only is the "Waioeka gorge" being targeted 80 kl per hr area so is the "Karangahape gorge " between Waihi and Paeroa.
Heaven help us.

[MSTRS:Me]

.... targeted 80 kl per hr area so is the "Karangahape gorge " between Waihi and Paeroa.
Heaven help us.

Already is, I believe. And double yellows the whole length of it. As is the Manawatu Gorge.