Biking in a cage driver world

[Motu]

Dunno - the roads are becoming more boring,requireing less input from the driver,they can be distracted by more things and just plain go to sleep.Driving high powered cars with too many widgets to count,they are far more capable than the nut behind the wheel.

Takes two to have a multi vehicle accident - if you guys can't get off your high horse and accept some responsability for your part...I can only see you having more.

Saw a car/bike head on in the Hunua gorge a few weeks ago - the car was sitting in the middle of it's lane,the sportsbike had hit it in the front and was propt against a pole.dunno how the rider was,I didn't stop.Coming back later I checked out the scene - I could see where the bike had dropped it in his lane,then slid over to the other side of the road and hit the car - I hope he was ok.

So what happened? anyone know about it? lets guess eh? he was going to fast and fell off - rider error.There was oil on the road and he hit it - rider error...shit mate,the Hunua gorge - there's a bloody quarry in the middle of it...ride with ya eyes open will ya!

I don't want to pay ACC for another riders mistake,but I will,he's one of us - just wish he had a few more brains.

[Duke of Rogan]

I would love to see some of our tax money go in to QUALITY roading.  Like for example a motorway between Auckland and Wellington - like most developed countries have

imagine all those empty backroads if all the traffic was on the motorway! wahooo!

I hate it when a cage driver thinks he's doing the right thing and pulls to the left, but gets so far that the left wheels start flicking shit up in your face!
maybe they are doing it on purpose...?

[wkid_one]

My thoughts exactly Duke.....good motorway equals less cars....

Yes Motu - Motorbikers do cause accidents - but this has nothing to do with the ACC levy - it is based on the cost and duration of the accident - not the fault.  However I agree that rider error is a contributing factor in some instances - including my own accident last year - and you could argue Nuanh's this year. 

However - road conditions have already been identified as the hidden factor in many NZ accidents (car and bike) over the last 20 years.  How many western countries allow vehicles to cross their 'motorways' leaving shit on the road?  We are underdeveloped in the roadind quality in NZ. Signage is inconsistent, road surface is variable.  Drive the road from Wellington to Ohakune - and see how many patches in the surface there are.  Hazards (gravel etc) are not pre-warned.  Vehicles/Livestock are allowed to cross deteriorating the road surface.

Take Nuanh's accident (mine was entirely rider error)- we are still arguing over whether there was signage - fuck - it should have been as clear as day - but it wasn't.  Yes there is a responsibility for riders to be aware - but you should be able to assume (to some degree) that the integrity of the roads you are riding on are safe and consistent.

Prime example - Roading NZ will remove the 'Gravel' signage when it is safe for a car to pass through - with no consideration for a bike....leaving pea metal in the middle and edges of the road.  How many times have people struck un-signed pea metal in their travels?

 

[Kwaka-Kid]

hmm  i  dunnno if we can blame the road much... Everyone rides to the roads conditions right? and we have some good roads im sure... the problem seems to be the lack of experience/knowledge or somthing when people come to poor roads, weather it be just a shit road, or grave l, or new chip, or whatever... Take aussie for example.. they might have better roads then us (i dunno) but that just means the motorcyclists will be taking advantage of that and riding to the limits of those roads and still come off etc..i guess im playing @ the angle of riding to the roads condition, and if you give most motorcyclists a really perfect road or somthing... they generally speed up and ride nearer the limits of that peice of tarmac... however its when we change to crappier quality roads that people dont seem to drop the speeds Enough... I.e how many motocycles has Sceinic Drive claimed? i was in Mt Eden listening to another sorry buggers storey of just "Slipping" right off the road.. i think that road is more a thing of peoples experience, and what tthey choose to do with advice given, because ive always heard everybody go on about sceinic drive and how leaves make it slippery, and the dark of the trees helps cultivate moss on road, and altho u might not see alot of it, its damn slippery... so yeah, i generally ride way way slow, possibly 50% what i could be doing, i dunno, and on that road im really not keen to find out where the limit is, because of the stories ive heard its not the most forgiving road in NZ.

[bikerboy]

I agree with KK to a point.

As road quality improves so will speed to a point. The newish motorway link to Orewa is a good example. Most cars could travel safely at 150kph if the police didn't patrol it, however most drivers would only drive around 120-130 kph.

The assumption that the better the road the faster people drive/ride is part of the mentallity the police and government use to keep the limits low. They presume most if not all people are idiots.

I truely believe most accidents on the roads happen due to three causes, one- inappropriate speed for conditions( that is not necessarily exceeding the posted limit), two- poor roads, either maintenace or design, and three- over demand for road capacity ( too many cars having to use the same one road to get anywhere).

These three things create impatience and that creates risk taking and that cause people to out drive their abilities. The gov't doesn't want to do anything about driving skills, road improvements, or additional roads.

[scumdog]

Help, I have sent two replies to this thread and the rffing gizmo has "eaten" both, is there a problem with the site???? - it's driving me (more) nuts.
Sent an e-mail message to the moderator but same thinge.

[wkid_one]

I haven't had too much dramas posting

I agree BB and KK - riding for the conditions is fine - however - one should be able to place a little degree of faith in the roading conditions being consistent is all I am saying.

[bikerboy]

, I thought I was agreeing wkid 1. Now it must be cold med withdrawal.

[Marmoot]

Totally missed my point about the increase in ACC levy argument.

What I'm saying is, it is not fair to just blame motorcyclists for the ACC increase when in fact so much money was spent in sex-abuse claims, horseback accident which is not ACC levied at all, DIY accidents which is not ACC levied at all, stupid children on bicycles which are not ACC levied at all, and only a small ACC levy increase in car registration so they would not lose votes!

The problem is not the increase. The problem is the politics that get mixed up in the increase.

[bikerboy]

I totally agree.



What can we do about it though?

[SPman]

[What can we do about it though?]

Several options spring to mind, but I dont think they would be of much practical good, involving, as they do, the words, "wall" and "bullets"!

[scumdog]

Been trying to get something on this thread but except for the "help" message above the 'puter spits the dummy when I try to send and tells me I am not logged on (which I had done so 5 mins. B4)
Anyway, 5th go, I worlked at a woolen mill and they were biker friendly, let me bring my sporty into the wool preparation area where I worked, meant (1) the bike was sheltered, (2) I could keep an eye on it and (3) as it was always 26 degrees starting my scoot at 6am when there was a 5 degree frost was easy, - mind you I froze my tits off on the 40km ride home.

[Kwaka-Kid]

scum have you got your IE setup propery with cookies enabled etc etc?

[wkid_one]

Agree with Marmoot

[Motu]

Originally posted by Marmoot
Totally missed my point about the increase in ACC levy argument.

What I'm saying is, it is not fair to just blame motorcyclists for the ACC increase when in fact so much money was spent in sex-abuse claims, horseback accident which is not ACC levied at all, DIY accidents which is not ACC levied at all, stupid children on bicycles which are not ACC levied at all, and only a small ACC levy increase in car registration so they would not lose votes!

The problem is not the increase. The problem is the politics that get mixed up in the increase.

10yrs ago I had the ACC payouts for Taranaki - percentages for claims and how much in total - after the big contact sports was horse riding accidents....motorcycle accidents were 16th on the list - and there was one motocross clain in that 6mth period.The statistics are there plain as day for the ACC,for them it's how to levy the charges....we are a prime target.

I'll stand up and pay my share for any kid that needs hospital treatment - but not for dumb adults.

Have a talk to a bunch of shelias that ride horses - they have all had a fall and broken bones at some stage,talk about them paying for it and you are in bitch city - shit,they are mean spitfull creatures to deal with when pushed - us off road types have had a few run ins with them.