Cornering

[2_SL0]

I have a query regarding the late apexing. I understand the principle, I try to put it to practise. But I have a couple of fears. First off, when cornering left I find I tend to be sitting out on the right hand side of the lane, and then dropping into the late apex. But Im worried about the cars comin the other way. Is this the standard practise or am I missing something. I am looking through the corner so I can generally see whats coming and adjust for that. But what do you do if its really sharp and you cant see. Im scard a big bad truck is going to come round the corner a little to fast be a little over the white line, and pick me up as a new hood ornament. Secondly Im always trying to stay roughly
on the piece of road where the car in front right hand tyre would sit. As you guys go through the corner (again were say left corner) do you cross from the outer right hand side to the inner left side of the lane. Im sorry If this is a dumb
question. I ask this because I was told to avoid the middl of the lane as its where all the oil and residue collect from cars, crossing over it when leaning in a corner worries me. Again does this just come down to paying attention to oil slicks etc on the road. Any answrs to these question would be great as this is really my one big concern when riding.

Skyrider would prob say Im over analysing. (He be right)

[TwoSeven]

It seems to me in both cases a contributing factor in the crash was apexing too early.
?

If you didnt make a corner on the road, or were wide etc. Its not because of technique or skill or anything like that. It was just because you were going too fast for that corner.

With road riding the two key points are to be going the correct speed for the situation and also to be in the correct position on the road.

As an example - consider you were late apexing and doing all that 'correct theory' stuff and a truck came round the corner and pushed you to the left, you should be able to finish the corner as if nothing had happened.

Just my thoughts

[FROSTY:Me]

This is summat I've been thinking about a lot lately. I seem to have lost a lot of my calm and reserve on the road when conering.
I'm finding myself on blind corners actually double or even triple apexing.
Its the whole "what if" syndrome.
What if theres a car on the wrong side of the road, What if theres gravel i cant see.
I was getting all cut up about it then I thought --hang on its just the survi val instinct cutting in.--or is it??

[Skyryder]

This is summat I've been thinking about a lot lately. I seem to have lost a lot of my calm and reserve on the road when conering.
I'm finding myself on blind corners actually double or even triple apexing.
Its the whole "what if" syndrome.
What if theres a car on the wrong side of the road, What if theres gravel i cant see.
I was getting all cut up about it then I thought --hang on its just the survi val instinct cutting in.--or is it??

"What if?" That's the safest way to ride. What you are doing is automaticaly preparaing for the unexpected. Another name is Defensive driving Way to go

Skyryder

[Jackrat]

I have a query regarding the late apexing. I understand the principle, I try to put it to practise. But I have a couple of fears. First off, when cornering left I find I tend to be sitting out on the right hand side of the lane, and then dropping into the late apex. But Im worried about the cars comin the other way. Is this the standard practise or am I missing something. I am looking through the corner so I can generally see whats coming and adjust for that. But what do you do if its really sharp and you cant see. Im scard a big bad truck is going to come round the corner a little to fast be a little over the white line, and pick me up as a new hood ornament. Secondly Im always trying to stay roughly
on the piece of road where the car in front right hand tyre would sit. As you guys go through the corner (again were say left corner) do you cross from the outer right hand side to the inner left side of the lane. Im sorry If this is a dumb
question. I ask this because I was told to avoid the middl of the lane as its where all the oil and residue collect from cars, crossing over it when leaning in a corner worries me. Again does this just come down to paying attention to oil slicks etc on the road. Any answrs to these question would be great as this is really my one big concern when riding.

Skyrider would prob say Im over analysing. (He be right)

Your concern with cars coming the other way is very well founded.
I just love late apexing an then diving hard into an thus out of a corner.
I was in the process of doing just this on a blind left hand corner I know very
well a few years ago.I was just begining to swing wide when a Toyota land cruiser came around the corner well over the center line.I did the big jink and narrowly got by him.
My younger brother who was behind me,later told me he was sure I was history because the Fwit in the Toyota just sat there,as they do.I now tend to take a medim line on the road if I can't see right through the corner.
The wide in,narrow out Tech' is to me a track thing.On public roads it works well but also might get you killed if your not very carefull.
I always try to give myself room to change my line if I need to.
This just means not pushing to hard if I don't know the road or I can't see as far as I'd like.
Dead hero's are still dead huh!!

far as crossing the center or riding on the center line of your own lane is concerned,I do it a lot,I use the whole lane if an when I feel like it.
The only time I've ever had an issue with it is when the road was wet,and even then only if it's just got wet after a dry spell.
The exception is on motoways,then I stick to one side or the other of my lane,normaly the outside.The reasons I stick to the outside is that it keeps me off the crap on the center line plus it dominates the lane.It forces lazy car drivers to move out of the lane to pass me an gives me some where to go if/when they pass to close.

As far as riders that just charge into blind corners,well I've known a lot of them.Most of them pulled their heads in,don't ride anymore,or are dead.I knew three of them that died an a few others that stopped riding because they reckoned it was to dangerous,after THEY fucked up.
Was only a matter of time :spudwhat:

[2_SL0]

Thanks Jackrat, thats sort of info this newbie is very keen to read.

Well Ill edit this and say.
I just went for a ride and it was the best ride so far. I am a hell of lot happier on the road and have gained alot more coinfidence. I owe you a beer Jackrat. Yes it is likey to be plainly obvious to all you senior riders here. But I needed to see it in words. I am still looking at the apex, and looking through the corner, but I am moving around the lane a hell of alot more and getting the bike well away from the center line earlier, rather than drpping into the apex as late as possible.
This places me out of the way of any oncoming traffic on a blind corner. It aint the fastest way BUT bygum it seems the safest. I can see if you push it hard u would swing wide. (Im guessing thats where the late apexing would come in handy) But I aint going to pushing hard for a very long time. I am actually starting to enjoy the corners as i feel alot happier on the road. I even have started leaning in, hehehehe. But I find another bad habit I may of dragged across from ym dirtbike. If I dont concentrate on leaning I tend to lean the other way, or at least it feels like it. Dont know if that makes sense. Maybe its that survival thingy. hehehe.
Soz to rave, but I had a blast. Oh its nice and quiet out here in Hunua bugger all cars on the road, just the way I like it.

[Posh Tourer :P]

I ask this because I was told to avoid the middl of the lane as its where all the oil and residue collect from cars, crossing over it when leaning in a corner worries me.

I look for slicks, but normally it doesnt worry me, and I cross the lane with impunity. However, you can easily tell on some roads if they are likely to have crap over the middle, and I always take it easier on those ones. Also helps not to worry about the crap. One corner on the way to work always has gravel etc, and it always feels heaps better to ignore it, and ride out the corner normally - obviously you acknowledge it's presence and adjust your speed, but going through the corner, ignoring is best - no target fixation, and you dont lighten up on the throttle or handlebars and cause any uncertainty and wobbles. If your speed is right, you'll have no worries, and you will be (hopefully) more confident by ignoring the detail of it, just know that it is there and that you should be going a bit slower.

[Motu]

Well,I went for a ride today - and bugger me,I was almost into suburbia before I remembered...I gotta analise my riding,think these corner things out.Looks like I haven't got a clue how to ride a motorcycle...I couldn't see any of these apex things,long or short...I wouldn't know one from an avocado,there were no vanishing points - they were just corners and I went through them like shit down a drain pipe...they were fun,and I didn't even know what I was doing,what a fluke eh?

[2_SL0]

lolol, Trust me I think your way is better. I aint reading anymore on tips how to ride as such. Im JUST going to ride.

[Two Smoker]

When im riding on the road, i dont think about cornering.... i just do it..... Dont think too hard about your lines on the road when riding....

Here's what you should do.... Take things slow, this is the time where you concentrate on the lines you take and looking for hazards, but learn to rear the road, look for powerlines (they generally follow the line of the road, road markers, signs and the way the road dissappears.... Speed (im not talking balls out speed) will come naturally as you get better at reading the road....

[Milky]

I had a close call when I very first started riding - the second time I was out on a bike in fact... Ran a little wide through the apex of a corner, and almost got clobbered by an Isuzu Trooper with damaged metal on the front right wheel. Being younger and more inexperienced I was looking at the front right wheel as I went past, and can still picture the shapshot my brain took before I closed my eyes and waited for the bang... He was half into my lane on a left hander at the bottom of a dip, and ever since then I have been trying to break an instinctive "stick in the left hand wheel track" style. I can avoid doing it most of the time, but if a corner is a double apex or blind I revert to the same position again and again.
Unless anyone has a bright idea, only time will fix it I guess...

[Bonez]

If you didnt make a corner on the road, or were wide etc. Its not because of technique or skill or anything like that. It was just because you were going too fast for that corner.

With road riding the two key points are to be going the correct speed for the situation and also to be in the correct position on the road.

As an example - consider you were late apexing and doing all that 'correct theory' stuff and a truck came round the corner and pushed you to the left, you should be able to finish the corner as if nothing had happened.

Just my thoughts

Well said. I try and stay in middle of the lane whenever possible for those reasons you mentioned plus the fact there seem to be a lot of other m/cs "practicing" their riding technique
My analisis of a ride I did yesterday-
Ducati rider(a mate)-looks nice, beautifull racing line, consistant style:love2: .
BMW rider(my dad)- all over the road. Nearly falls asleep following the Ducati rider .
Ol Honda rider(me)-stays in lane. Pissed off he has to follow behind the Ducati
and BMW rider. Knows he can go around those damn corners quicker

[Mr Skid]

I went for a ride up Old North Rd to Wellsford and back on Friday afternoon, and tried my usual technique (up to now) on the way there. This involves hanging off the bike and trying to steer the bike around the corner with my hands.

From analysing the reactions of the bike I identified that I was turning in too much, then having to straighten up, and tip in again.

I worked out while having a break in Wellsford that I'd started looking at the inside of the corner to stop myself looking at the outside of the corner and running wide, which I was doing when I first started riding. Also I was thinking about how to steer the bike with the bars and moving about.

On the way back I decided to stay on the bike and concentrate on lines, following the vanishing point in tight corners, and looking at points on the road where I wanted my bike to travel over on sweepers.

It was a completely different ride. I was using the 'long line' sort of thing through the corner that Skyryder was talking about.

There were no nasty suprises, as I wasn't thinking about leaning the bike. My muscles already know what to do to get the bike to go in a direction, all I needed to do was to start feeding them directions with my eyes rather than my thoughts.

Using this long line approach meant that I was looking at the corner before I got to it, rather than as I was entering it.

It gave me the chance to gather all the clues together, such as power lines and road markers

Up to now I've been concentrating on corners as a collection of elements, such as braking phases, turn in, lean angles etc,

Now I'm thinking about it more holistically with the aim being to get out the other side without scaring myself in the process.

[Vagabond]

When im riding on the road, i dont think about cornering.... i just do it..... Dont think too hard about your lines on the road when riding....

Here's what you should do.... Take things slow, this is the time where you concentrate on the lines you take and looking for hazards, but learn to rear the road, look for powerlines (they generally follow the line of the road, road markers, signs and the way the road dissappears.... Speed (im not talking balls out speed) will come naturally as you get better at reading the road....

Hey TS thats good advice, Iv'e only just seen this thread and seeing as my name was mentioned, I thought i'd let you guys know what I done when i binned it.
Well from my perspective anyways !

All was going well and i was really enjoying the ride, although at times in certain corners I felt like I was slightly out of my comfort zone

Well, what I do remember is that I looked in my rear view mirror and on looking forward again I just caught a glimpse of the information sign, you know the ones that give a recommended speed, but it didn't quite register as to what that speed was :confused2 anyways that pretty much sums it up

Yip I lost concentration !!!!

When I did see how sharp the corner actually was I knew I had just gone in too hot
On braking I lost the rear end to hard braking +_ three times, that was due to me seeing loose gravel at the start of the corner and was therefore reluctant to grab to much front brake; Have fallen hard that way too- broken ribs-
To continue I did not feel like going straight through the fence and made an effort to throw the bike into the corner, this was done very aggresively with me also opening the throttle aggresively, and that my friends caused the rear wheel to loose traction again but it also decided to grab again which resulted in me being HIGHSIDED.
was over, and I the fence pole.

Bottom line don't loose concentration especially when riding faster than your usual pace.
Hope this helps

[FlyingDutchMan]

That late apexing made my life on the bike a shit load better, and more fun. By doing the late apex I found I got round the corners without any worries of going out of my lane or over the edge, got tons of room if I do mis-calculate a little, not to mention it was much faster than I had previusly been doing it, and I was actually looking through the corner even if I couldn't see where the road went. It was awesome until... the rear started sliding out a bit on the corners. It removed my new found confidence on the road. Then I realised it had been because of grit the council had put down over winter. Oh well nothing to do about it but take it easier util the grit run out.

BTW: Top post!