NZ Police: Safety or $$$ (A little fuel to the fire)

[Max Preload]

I've had a few tickets and the only time I've ever changed my driving behaviour after being pulled over I was not given a ticket. Personally I don't believe the fine system is any type of deterrent at all.

Neither do I.

Quite frankly, I'm stunned at your apparent insight, SD. Are you feeling ok?

This is the ONLY empirical way to tell if someone is truly dangerous. Anything else is subject to opinion.

However, speed is the only tangible way to ticket people, unless they have an accident

It's utterly ridiculous that someone driving safely (and without crashing) but over the posted arbitrary speed limit gets hammered with a fine exceeding that for say failing to give way etc. when there is actually a crash.

[scumdog]

Quite frankly, I'm stunned at your apparent insight, SD. Are you feeling ok? .

I have no insight, I just see it as a loser tax.

[Grahameeboy]

Mate, you have to get out more. NZ roads are crap, and getting worse. They are noticeably better in the South Island than the NI. I noticed the difference as soon as I go off the ferry after living for 2 years down south, with regular trips between Akl and Chc. They have also got noticeably worse over the years I have been riding bikes. Riding to the conditions means 10kph with a guy and a red flag in front, to warn you of the potholes, gravel, unsignposted slips, washouts, ripples, diesel, etc, etc.

30,000 k's in 2 years is getting out there.

Agree roads are not like race track surfaces, however, they are not crap and anyway, being that most roads for us are rural what do you expect......

[Grahameeboy]

So speed is penalised because it's easy to spot, not because it's actually a safety factor? What about black vehicles? A ticket for being invisible perhaps?

If you cannot spot a black vehicle I would worry mate.

This is the ONLY empirical

Agreed to an extent.

So does random stopping and I don't like that either.

Why? If you have nothing to hide, nothing to worry about.

This would probably do a world of good for Police reputation and morale.

Agreed

This make perfect sense.

I think Douglas Adams said it best:
While plummeting backward through time in the flag ship of the admiral of the space fleet -
Trillian: "Hey, that sounds better, have you managed to make some sense of the controls?"
Ford: "No, we just stopped fiddling with them."

................

[Grahameeboy]

Quite frankly, I'm stunned at your apparent insight, SD. Are you feeling ok?




It's utterly ridiculous that someone driving safely (and without crashing) but over the posted arbitrary speed limit gets hammered with a fine exceeding that for say failing to give way etc. when there is actually a crash.

Yes and Yes............Yes agree in rural areas when there is no other traffic and agree with accidents, however, most accidents do not involve the Police attending so less chance of ticket plus I guess the Police know that careless driving can be questioned as the Police were not actually viewing the accident like they do speed.

I had an Insurance claim a while back. Guy reverses out of driveway into path of another vehicle. Just so happens this driver just looked down to turn radio on so I guess lost a few seconds reaction time......the Police prosecuted this driver for not paying attention and the guy who reversed out got nothing......it was a straight road so he clearly should have waited for vehicle on the road....where was the sense in that or

Guy lost control on bend. Ends up in someones front garden. Police did him for...wait for it....'Inconsiderate Parking'.....not word of a lie, it's true.

[Max Preload]

Yes and Yes............Yes agree in rural areas when there is no other traffic and agree with accidents, however, most accidents do not involve the Police attending so less chance of ticket plus I guess the Police know that careless driving can be questioned as the Police were not actually viewing the accident like they do speed.

Rural would be more dangerous than the Auckland motorway system which is divided it's entire length with median barriers as opposed to a thin dashed painted line.

It's not debatable that actions causing a crash were careless - otherwise the crash would not have occured. Police should always attend but I guess in so many cases they're busy issuing tickets to people who haven't been driving so badly that they've crashed.

I had an Insurance claim a while back. Guy reverses out of driveway into path of another vehicle. Just so happens this driver just looked down to turn radio on so I guess lost a few seconds reaction time......the Police prosecuted this driver for not paying attention and the guy who reversed out got nothing......it was a straight road so he clearly should have waited for vehicle on the road....where was the sense in that

No sense that I can spot. The driver already on the road had a reasonable expectation that someone wouldn't come careening out of their driveway, backwards, without looking and crashing into him.

Guy lost control on bend. Ends up in someones front garden. Police did him for...wait for it....'Inconsiderate Parking'.....not word of a lie, it's true.

I wonder what other options are open to the Police with regards to incidents like this. Surely undue care and attention or careless use would apply.

[Grahameeboy]

Rural would be more dangerous than the Auckland motorway system which is divided it's entire length with median barriers as opposed to a thin dashed painted line.

Surely speeding on a motorway with S.W.O.T. is more dangerous than a quiet rural road??

.................

[swbarnett]

If you cannot spot a black vehicle I would
worry mate.

Under some conditions they can be pretty hard to see.

Why? If you have nothing to hide, nothing to worry about.

George Orwell. This attitude leads to a complete loss of freedom.

[Grahameeboy]

Under some conditions they can be pretty hard to see.

You mean at night without lights on......
George Orwell. This attitude leads to a complete loss of freedom.

Have never read him and have not lost my freedom.......it comes from within in my book........not on book shelves yet!!

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[peasea]

This has been an interesting thread, generally speaking. It's good to see that even members of the police force on kb don't see the fines system as a deterrent; they'd be silly if they did. The last thing a money-hungry government wants is people obeying daft speed limits, there's no money in that.

I finally found the time to dig out an article that appeared in the Dominion Post on Friday August 13 2004 by one Oskar Alley. (There's even a pic of a copper hiding in some cabbage trees with his wee gun thingy...) Ok, it's three years old but not much has changed in that time and in the full-page article Alley quotes National MP Tony Ryall as saying "It can't be a co-incidence that in March the (justice) ministry needed money and was counting on an extra $3.5m in tickets, then magically, three months later, the police announce a 25% hike in the number of tickets....the ministry is pulling the police's strings so we know it's all about money, not road safety".

And that's not cop bashing, it's ministry bashing. I'm sure if you want to read the whole thing you'll find it in the Dom' Post's archives but the point is; it IS about the money but not on a police level, it's at a ministry level. I wonder how the average bobby feels about being used in such a way; I'd hate to be anyone's puppet.

SD is right in saying it's a loser tax and therefore, to avoid paying it all you have to do is crawl along at 108kph on the open road. We could, of course, lobby parliament full-on for an increase in the speed limit (in certain areas)but that would mean kiwis putting pen to paper and exercising some brain power. I doubt that will ever happen, they're too freakin' lazy.

In a way I pity the cops, they get to be tax collectors, not what they joined up for I'd wager. (Some maybe, but not all.) Then they're given 'performance expectations' and on it goes ad infinitum.........

Is that sunshine I see through my window?