Why do you hate BMW 650s?

[tipper]

I have been looking around for the next bike (sold Yammie XT600), and was looking for something with better road manners (to get to the adventure from Auckland) and a 21" front. Has to be able to be picked up, hence no 990 or GS.
BMW Dakar, KTM 640 Adventure, or how does the standard KTM 640 fit ( I dislike the styling of the Adventure). Rode a Husky 600 something down South and it had lovely road manners, and was not too bad in the rough.
Plenty of people rubbish the BMWs, but plenty love 'em; why the divide?
And no, I'm not going to buy a DR650!!!!!!!!!!

[deanohit]

Ha, I see you've done ya background reading on here, these guys love their DR650s.
I don't know of anything wrong with the beemers, but I've heard they're more road than adventure, but plenty of people seem to take them to some far out places.

[cooneyr]

I have been looking around for the next bike (sold Yammie XT600), and was looking for something with better road manners (to get to the adventure from Auckland) and a 21" front. Has to be able to be picked up, hence no 990 or GS.
BMW Dakar, KTM 640 Adventure, or how does the standard KTM 640 fit ( I dislike the styling of the Adventure). Rode a Husky 600 something down South and it had lovely road manners, and was not too bad in the rough.
Plenty of people rubbish the BMWs, but plenty love 'em; why the divide?
And no, I'm not going to buy a DR650!!!!!!!!!!

We (well I) dont hate them they are just not right for me. We (read I) like the DR650 cause it has torque in the right place, is lighter, narrower, can carry plenty of gear, is plenty fast enough, and I find the seat more comfortable than the Dakar (long arms and find the Dakar seat restrictive).

In Chch there are at least 4 Dakars and 4 DR650s that I can think of right now, plus an assortment of KLR's etc etc. Take your pick - they all work perfectly well and they all have "issues" to watch out for. The KLR and Dakar are similar in abilities and the DR650 is slightly more dirt orientated. Plug has taken his Dakar pretty well everywhere I've taken the DR (or is that the other way round) so they are plenty capable with the right tyres and rider.

I dont think there is anything wrong per say with the KTM's either but ya gotta have monies for one of thems. Remember you can get at 18l factory made tank for the SXC625/640LC4E.

Cheers R

[Crisis management]

Yummy, fresh meat!

No, seriously, get whatever suits you, we all have opinions (and of course mine are the only correct ones) but as long as you are happy with it, what the hell.

I've only ridden a 650 Dakar for a couple of km's (thanks windboy) but was impressed with the comfort. Compared to my bike it felt a bit less powerful and harder to break the rear out and it is significantly heavier but the up side of great fuel economy, comfort, range, did I mention comfort, are all very positive aspects. My only negative was the very constrained seating position; bum was firmly positioned in one place and the sculpting on the tank constrained your leg position as well. However, this was a very brief ride, so I'm being a bit hypercritical pointing these things out. I would love to take a longer trip on the Dakar to see how it stacks up.

Buy something and come out for a ride........


Actually, PM Windboy and he will whisper in your ear all sorts of dirty BMW secrets.

[clint640]

There's nowt wrong with the 650GS beemers, if you want to go to a more street friendly & comfortable adv single than your XT they're probably an excellent choice. I wouldn't suggest a KTM 640 given those criteria, you'd get the KTM if you wanted something more dirt capable.

The main thing I'd call the Dakar on is the weight, they are nearly as heavy as a 12GS or KTM990.

I do the same stuff on my 640 Enduro (equipped with 18L tank & windscreen) that my mate does on his Dakar. I like the better suspension, tougher plastics, cheaper parts & lighter weight of my KTM, but I don't have the comfort of the Dakar. It's what works for me.

Cheers
Clint

[Jantar]

On last year's Passes ride the Dakar kept up with the bigger bikes on the road sections, and was easily the best bike on the gravel and dirt.

It is an ideal Adventure bike.

[tipper]

There's nowt wrong with the 650GS beemers, if
I do the same stuff on my 640 Enduro (equipped with 18L tank & windscreen) that my mate does on his Dakar. I like the better suspension, tougher plastics, cheaper parts & lighter weight of my KTM, but I don't have the comfort of the Dakar. It's what works for me.

Cheers
Clint

What are the main differences with the std 640? Smaller tank only? I used to have a 520, so am well aware of KTM engineering and need for 'enthusiast' owner.

[sAsLEX]

I recently rode a KTM 640 Adventure after years on Road bikes.

I liked it though cant really comment on the adventure part of it as I spent the majority of the time on the road, but it went well there dispensing twisties with ease with the likeable torque of the single suiting tighter stuff, though on the MW it tops out near 80MPH before getting too loose/high revs.

And they don't look too bad.

[sels1]

I used to have one of the BMW F650 'Funduro's (which are really a rebadged Aprillia Pegaso) Damn good 'allrounder' type bike. Very comfy and capable on the road and quite competent on the gravel and tracks, (but its no trail bike.)
It was ok 2 up, and was reliable.

[windboy]

I have been looking around for the next bike (sold Yammie XT600), and was looking for something with better road manners (to get to the adventure from Auckland) and a 21" front. Has to be able to be picked up, hence no 990 or GS.
BMW Dakar, KTM 640 Adventure, or how does the standard KTM 640...

All the bikes you mention are good reliable bikes (if looked after properly). They all compromise one thing for another due to the nature of the "dual purposeness". The kind or riding you're planning on doing will determine which one is best for you. And there's also the stoke factor, to do with the feeling of riding it and the looks of the bike...

I've ridden crisis's DR650 on the weekend and struggle to think about a better bike for the dirt/gravel/sand/off road in general, brought a big grin on my face instantly (it's a hoon machine!!!). However, sealed roads, long hauls and specially commuting I can think of a few other better suited with a better compromise.

I had a transalp before which was a great bike but maybe too top heavy for me (being a short arse and all that), making it dicey when the going got tough.

The dakar seems to better suits what I need it for. The rotax motor is a bit of a legend, 210 mm travel front and rear adapts well to my type of riding. I fault the electrics it as they seem a bit exposed to the weather and falls but that can all be fixed with a bit of home made weatherproofing. She's still a bit heavy but the CoG is well low so you don't notice it much.

KTMs surely exceeds my riding skills hence they would be wasted on me... They are definetly leading edge perormance oriented bikes... just watch the dakar rally and see how many of them....

May also pay checking the new tenere, could suit what you're after? based on your old XT and making it a bit more civilised?

Back to the original question, what do a I hate of the GS650? the handgrips are damn flimsy, need to upgrade to acerbis ones...

later,

[Finn]

Had a look at one at the new Auckland BMW showroom. Looked like a great bike to me. I'll take one for a ride once the showroom officially opens.

[warewolf]

Plenty of people rubbish the BMWs, but plenty love 'em; why the divide?

Different people value different characteristics. I don't hate any bike. My personal perspective is that when it comes to outright adventuring, BMW's marketing team does a better job than their engineers; there are other bikes out there that are the reverse.

But none of us here gives a shit what you ride. Adventure riding has to be the greatest compromise in motorcycling. At some point of the ride we all wish we were on a different bike (or at least different tyres!), but we enjoy most the one we own. We all fall off, we all have good days and off days, we all readily help each other out, we all take the piss and we all have a good time doing it and lying about it in the pub (and on KB) afterwards.

What are the main differences with the std 640? Smaller tank only? I used to have a 520, so am well aware of KTM engineering and need for 'enthusiast' owner.

The RC4(?) 520 motor is way more highly strung and maintenance-intensive than the LC4 640 series. Performance enduro racer versus lazy trail bike. The LC4 Enduro has a typical enduro tank, enduro seat, single front disc, 43mm forks(?), high front guard, suitably narrow front rim, typically weak enduro headlight, no fairing. The 640 Adventure gets the 25.5L tank (used to be 28L), comfort seat, fairing, twin discs, stupid wide soft front rim, good headlights, low front guard, 48mm forks, bash plate, power socket, hand guards, centre stand, umm think that's it. I reckon the 640E with factory 18L tank and comfort seat is the best bang for your buck.

I recently rode a KTM 640 Adventure after years on Road bikes. ... though on the MW it tops out near 80MPH before getting too loose/high revs.

Well mine cruises comfortably on that all day (even on the dirt), that's about peak torque on them with std gearing, never topped it out, seen 185km/h and still going. Heck I've seen 170-odd on the dirt. In std trim one of the complaints is that they are a little top-endy, mine's still std Euro 2 compliant. Basic uncorking mainly releases the bottom end grunt you'd expect it to have in the first place, but of course returns a couple of ponies up top. They have more power and less weight than a Dakar; on half-dry weights the Dakar is 200 kW/t, the 640 Adventure is 253 kW/t.

[sAsLEX]

2002 I was playing on, will get to 100MPH if you are trying hard, but thats ringing its tits off which aint that flash for a single?


It had decent head lights , but a high guard , and one disc brake.




What year bike are you looking at?

[scrubs]

I have the F650GS and while there is no denying its a great bike
It boils down to different horses for different courses My dispute with the bike is the weight - something I am pretty anal about when It comes to touring, If I can shave a 100 or so pounds
off a bike before I have even began to pack it then I feel I am on a winner.
Another thing that miffs me about it, is the engine - Now I know it's
possible to work on these things competently, you only need to check out the FAQ at
f650.com to see this and the great supposrt that goes on there, but as stupid
as it may sound I never found the engine welcoming to work on - for want of much better words. I like to get intimate with my bikes and that is
something that I have never been able to do for some reason with this bike -- it almost screams at me "don't fuckin touch me"
partly down to the FI. But like I said it's horses for courses, there is no wrong or right, they have proved themselves excellent RTW bikes times over,
If it feels right for you, buy one. I doubt you will be dissapointed, depending on your expectations.
The funny thing is I am selling mine for a DR650


As for why people hate them, I dunno, probably lots of different reasons, but I would say marketing plays a big role.
I can't deny that I have thought badly when I see someone on their GS with a BMW rally pro suit, BMW GS2 enduro boots and BMW helmet, cap and sweat shirt,
like they have bought into and fell for a whole marketing package. Obviously that is definitlry not the case for all BMW riders but just an example
of what tugs on my tits at times, but I suppose thats very hypocritical off me to think so.

[clint640]

What are the main differences with the std 640? Smaller tank only? I used to have a 520, so am well aware of KTM engineering and need for 'enthusiast' owner.

By std 640 do you mean 640 Adv or my 640 Enduro before mods? Before 05 the 640 Enduro & 640 Adv were the same apart from, on the Adv, big 28L tank, top fairing/lights, tacho, low front guard, centre stand & slightly different seat. Post 05 the Adv got bigger diameter forks & twin discs up front also.

My Enduro is now fitted with the KTM accessory 18L tank & comfort seat, it's quick to swap the original 12L tank & slimmer seat back on. I've also made up a windscreen, pannier racks, carrier & radiator guards for it.

Cheers
Clint