Trail-braking in corners

[lanci]

Thanks for all the great responses guys.

During the days I have definitely been working on the vanishing point theory and I find that it is extremely effective (tried it in the car also and it seemed very weird having the large body around me). But at night I have think that with my poor headlight I have simply been going in too hot into unknown corners.

The items I will take from this discussion are;
-RRRS or similiar course is a must
-Entry speed needs to be in check
-Countersteer more in the corners (am currently doing 40% of the time but the other 60% is when I drop nuts and use the rear brake a tad)
-Go harder on known corners!

[nudemetalz]

I actually use the rear brake going around slow roundabouts to keep the Guzzi steady, because of it's torque reaction and low speed jerkiness. Makes it so much smoother and controlled.
Also use it a little in faster corners but the good engine braking means this is not hugely necessary.

[vifferman]

I actually use the rear brake going around slow roundabouts to keep the Guzzi steady, because of it's torque reaction and low speed jerkiness. Makes it so much smoother and controlled.

Good point!
The rear brake used as a 'rudder' makes low-speed cornering (especially u-turns) much easier on most bikes.

One thing this whole discussion doesn't take account of is linked braking systems, like the DCBS on the VFR. I can use either brake in the corner, without it upsetting the balance too much at all.
On previous bikes, I used the back brake before the apex to settle the bike before applying the front brake while letting off the rear brake, then finally releasing both brakes before the apex. Sometimes I'd trailbrake in the corner with either brake: something that's worth practicing to get a feel for the effect it has on the bike's attitude and for scrubbing off a little speed. There may be times you have to brake in a corner whether it's 'naughty' or not. If you're not cornering at 100% of your available traction it's not a big deal.

[Hitcher]

I find that a touch of rear brake entering a corner sets the FJR to better allow a more aggressive line through the turn. Only a touch, mind, as it doesn't take much pressure to completely lock up the rear wheel.

[lanci]

Yeah I played with the whole braking gently in corners tonight and found that rear brake = tighten corner (pulls bike down) and front brake = pushes wide (stands bike up).

I don't like the idea of locking up my rear brake (not possible at the mo with 1mm of rear pad left) so as mentioned only very light application will/should be used if needed!

[beyond]

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that when trail braking with the front that yes, it will stand the bike up but that is compensated for by applying more counter steering to even up the effect.

With practice this becomes second nature.

[mbazza]

An interesting read, food for thought. Thanks. Cheers.

[craigs288]

My pegs have a little metal lug that sticks straight down about 30-40 mm.

I checked it out at home by laying my bike over on it's side until the peg stub touched the ground and then got a friend to hold it there while I looked at the tyre contact patch on the ground. Had at least 10mm before the edge of the tyre, both front and rear.

I have never scraped the pegs while out riding, but if I ever did I would take that as a signal to stop leaning over because I am at the last 10mm of tyre.

[Mental Trousers]

That's what they're there for, to let you know when you're getting close to max lean.

[pritch]

Trail braking usually refers to using the front brakes until almost at the apex.

Yep!

I understand the racers use the front brake to load the front tyre as they turn in thus tightening the line. They know what they are doing though and they've got much better surfaces to work with...

Slowing during a corner will tighten your line through it. The Rossis of this world sometimes use the back brake to adjust their line while they are on the gas to a lesser or greater extent.

On the road, however, the general rule is that you should be using the gas or the brake, not both.

[imdying]

I checked it out at home by laying my bike over on it's side until the peg stub touched the ground and then got a friend to hold it there while I looked at the tyre contact patch on the ground. Had at least 10mm before the edge of the tyre, both front and rear.

I have never scraped the pegs while out riding, but if I ever did I would take that as a signal to stop leaning over because I am at the last 10mm of tyre.

Be aware that things are vastly different when the suspension and tyres are loaded up.