Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[Waylander]

well i'm not gonna call you american because that's even MORE insulting to the rest of the two american continents: what else would you suggest?

Oddly enough those I've talked to from Mexico, Canada, Brazil and Argentina find it insulting to be referred to as Americans. Doesn't mean every one there is but when the majority of the world means the USA when they say Americans, I'd be insulted to be called one if I wasn't from there.

Do you call a Russian Asian? German a European?
Are you Oceanic or a New Zealander?

As for what to call my country other than by it's name, surely someone as smart as you can find one that isn't insulting. The States is a real simple one for you and I didn't even finish High School back home.
Or maybe instead of grouping n entire nation of down right good people in with an administration of fucktards led by a retard that doesn't even know which way is up on a phone, you could just say Bush.

[SPman]

I thought Jake is a TEXAN! - not a Yank, American, Rebel, just a plain Texan.


Does he need more?

[SPman]

..was it the same conniving ''b eye tee see h'' that removed our Air strike capability, even though it was symbolic and at least stated that up until then we werent completely bludging off others defensive capabilities.

There is a chance they might reactivate the Macchis! (the sales keep falling through and the Skyhawks are still at Ohakea, as well.......)

[Waylander]

I thought Jake is a TEXAN! - not a Yank, American, Rebel, just a plain Texan.


Does he need more?

That he is but I don't think idleidolidyll is really making that distinction.
When he says 'yank' he means all of us, not just a particular region.
Like calling a Wellingtonian a JAFA.

[The Stranger:Me]

if you were awake and reading my posts you'd have seen me say several times that I don't support either Clark or Keys

So once again Idle, your fix is?

I mean it is all well and good to knock from without, anyone can (and does do that) lets hear what will work, not what wont work.

[Delerium]

Exactly, and it hasnt escaped everyones attention that we are one of the worlds food and water resources and a gateway to the Antarctic. Who was it that said we live in a ''benign environment'' when it comes to defending ourselves?....was it the same conniving ''b eye tee see h'' that removed our Air strike capability, even though it was symbolic and at least stated that up until then we werent completely bludging off others defensive capabilities.

Heck, I think I had something to do with starting this thread.

Never mind, I better keep my mouth shut

[Robert Taylor]

more like he hasn't found a good work life balance like this socialist......................getting rich is a waste of time when your heart gives out at 52

No. More like many my work life imbalance subsidises others....

[Finn]

well i'm not gonna call you american because that's even MORE insulting to the rest of the two american continents: what else would you suggest?

A kiwi? But surely you wouldn't stoop that low.

[idleidolidyll]

So once again Idle, your fix is?

I mean it is all well and good to knock from without, anyone can (and does do that) lets hear what will work, not what wont work.

my 'fix' is already here; MMP

a far better political system than the abusive dictatorships we had before it.

That rednecks don't like it only proves to me that it works.

MMP tempers the worst excesses of the majority partner.

Labour's problem is that they have shifted right and cosey up to foreign business without enough considereration of the impact on wages and jobs in NZ. Our real income has dropped drastically since the 80's and the gap between rich and poor has grown.

What value is McDonalds etc to NZ? Most of these big corporations pay minimum wages and destroy local business, then they send their profits offshore. This is something Winston Peters seems to understand but he's seriously flawed in other areas.

In the end though, I can vote tactically, protest and write. I am not about to buy a gun and blow someones head off for it.

Far too many Kiwis whine about but don't even study politics and they are easily suckered by hype and spin.

You ask what we can do or what I do: regardless of what you might say about it, countering propaganda and spin is extremely valuable.

[idleidolidyll]

Oddly enough those I've talked to from Mexico, Canada, Brazil and Argentina find it insulting to be referred to as Americans.

and when I lived in Canada most Canadians I spoke to found it disgusting that yanks stole the name of two continents as a label for their people. Likewise many other continental Americans I've chatted with online.

So much for hearsay.

It's my little protest and tough luck if you or anyone else doesn't like it.

[The Stranger:Me]

my 'fix' is already here; MMP

a far better political system than the abusive dictatorships we had before it.

That rednecks don't like it only proves to me that it works.

MMP tempers the worst excesses of the majority partner.

Labour's problem is that they have shifted right and cosey up to foreign business without enough considereration of the impact on wages and jobs in NZ. Our real income has dropped drastically since the 80's and the gap between rich and poor has grown.

So which country would you say has the closest working model to your ideal?

[idleidolidyll]

Security and WMD's were always smokescreens. That was confirmed when Yanks interfered in lawmaking in Iraq in many ways but specifically in order to make it easier for Yank corporations to rape that economy and specifically to steal the oil without a significant percentage of profits going to Iraqis (other than corrupted Yank cronies).

The Iraqi people have woken up though and they are pissed:

Black Gold Turns Grey as Western Giants Prepare to Draw from the Wells of Iraq (September 30, 2007)
In this Independent article, Ewa Jasiewicz speaks of Iraq's fight for access to Iraq's vast oil reserves. The author says that the growing public opposition to foreign control of Iraq's oil has stalled the "black goldrush" that oil companies were hoping for.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2007/0930blackgoldgrey.htm

[davereid]

No. More like many my work life imbalance subsidises others....

The problem is that democracy as they say is often two wolves and a lamb voting on dinner.

Socialists would have you believe that capitalism is inherently evil, and designed to take us all back to slavery or serfdom.

And it's quite capable of doing that !

But, socialisim actually does do it.

We all know that if you work, and get no reward, it is taken by your master (The one who sets the rules) that you are a slave.

At exactly what point do you stop being a slave ?

If master gives you food and board?
When you keep 10 % of your income ?
50% of income ?

If socialists really believed that income tax is anything other that being fined for being productive, then would make income tax voluntary.

That would be real democracy ! Not only do you vote for an outcome, you vote with your money !

[idleidolidyll]

the whole thing was and is a farce and a failure except that it has succeeded in one of it's unspoken goals: transferring wealth from the taxpayer to the corporations and the already rich.
Oil companies are making outrageous profits, companis engaged in building and supplying the machines of war are laughing all the way to the bank and Cheney and Bush's buddies in Carlyse and Halliburton are creaming it massively.
The ever changing excuses for this war have all fallen by the wayside; unproven or proven bullshit. What remains is greed and lust for power.

Lets see Iraq from the opposite spin:
"Progress" by the Numbers (September 9, 2007)
This TomDispatch article examines the "carefully defined and cherry picked" numbers presented by the US government and General David Petraeus to sell progress in Iraq. The author says marketing tools have been used by the US since before the war. To illustrate the manipulation of numbers, the author presents a comprehensive list of his own alternative numbers - 17 nations withdrawn from the coalition of the willing, US$3 billion cost of the war per week, and 50,000 Iraqis fleeing their homes each month.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/withdraw/2007/0909progressnumbers.htm

[idleidolidyll]

The problem is that democracy as they say is often two wolves and a lamb voting on dinner.

Socialists would have you believe that capitalism is inherently evil, and designed to take us all back to slavery or serfdom.

And it's quite capable of doing that !

But, socialisim actually does do it.

We all know that if you work, and get no reward, it is taken by your master (The one who sets the rules) that you are a slave.

At exactly what point do you stop being a slave ?

If master gives you food and board?
When you keep 10 % of your income ?
50% of income ?

If socialists really believed that income tax is anything other that being fined for being productive, then would make income tax voluntary.

That would be real democracy ! Not only do you vote for an outcome, you vote with your money !

rubbish, you're making the usual mistake of confusing socialism with communism; that's just right wing propaganda along the lines of the stupid Yank Conservative line about 'left wing media'