Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[idleidolidyll]

We will never restore NZ economic capabilities as long as both major parties buy into globalisation US style.
All we will do is end up working for foreign companies at minimum wages.

For relatively weak countries like NZ, economic protectionism is valid. Our very currency can be manipulated not just by nations but by individuals.

[Ocean1]

For comparison, here is where our political parties lie on this chart:

The New Zealand Party Political Compass™


also interesting is that the gross abusers are not inherently right or left wing but as I've said before; authoriatarian (Bush and Mao would also be well into the upper two quadrants but opposite on the economic scale):

I'm more interested in where you got that singularly warped piece of propaganda from. And why libertairanism is considered as such a threat as to be described as responsible for quite such a wide range of influence...

[Ocean1]

No more posts from me today. Im now going to further engage in being a nasty capitalist for the rest of the day, delirious in the knowledge that a proportion of the tax dollars that are raped off me will be subsidising the ''Governments'' election bribery fund.

Shit. I had a really productive day all layed out. Now I can't be fooked.

If you have trouble buying anything actually produced in NZ next week blame Robert.

[davereid]

rubbish, you're making the usual mistake of confusing socialism with communism; that's just right wing propaganda along the lines of the stupid Yank Conservative line about 'left wing media'

Nope, no confusion here !

Socialists feel sorry for those at the bottom of the heap.

They are sure that they will make the world a better place if they lift the standard of living for those people by giving them health and education and a guaranteed minimum income.

They may actually be right !

But they also thinks its OK (good actually) to fund this noble idea by taking the money off thoses members of the community who aren't at the bottom of the heap.

And they are quite happy to take this money by force, even vast amounts of it, with lots of productive New Zealanders losing well over 50% of their top income in taxes.

[carver]

We will never restore NZ economic capabilities as long as both major parties buy into globalisation US style.
All we will do is end up working for foreign companies at minimum wages.

For relatively weak countries like NZ, economic protectionism is valid. Our very currency can be manipulated not just by nations but by individuals.

as socialisim grows, the state grows nearer to bankruptcy..
new york in the 60's is a classic case, as is the collapse of the USSR.
i heavily disagree with your ideals on economics, protectionisim just creates uncompeditive business globally.
we must provide what the world wants, its supply and demand.

[terbang]

Both communism and Islam are expansionist, as such they do not rest with what they have and will try and acquire or convert neighbours.

Wrong on the Islam bit there and are those people, from within christian ranks, that drag you out of bed on a saturday morning any less expansionist? They offer it in any language of your choice and a mass conversion before 8pm, if you so wish (so you can attend sunday service) in what ever colour you like. So how many Muslims have you had banging on your door? There is more to this than what you will find on CNN you know..!

[scumdog]

Nope, no confusion here !

Socialists feel sorry for those at the bottom of the heap.

They are sure that they will make the world a better place if they lift the standard of living for those people by giving them health and education and a guaranteed minimum income.

They may actually be right !

But they also thinks its OK (good actually) to fund this noble idea by taking the money off thoses members of the community who aren't at the bottom of the heap.

And they are quite happy to take this money by force, even vast amounts of it, with lots of productive New Zealanders losing well over 50% of their top income in taxes.

I concur - and too many of those leeching off the tax-payer do absolutely nothing to lift themselves up and be productive, paying and contributing members of society.

[terbang]

Shit. I had a really productive day all layed out. Now I can't be fooked.

If you have trouble buying anything actually produced in NZ next week blame Robert.

Yeah don't you love the fine print that you find on about the fourth label down . Soon to be on Norsewear too.

MADE IN CHINA

[davereid]

as socialisim grows, the state grows nearer to bankruptcy...we must provide what the world wants, its supply and demand.

Absolutely. We can't simply improve our standard of living by bumping the minimum adult wage up every year.

We actually need to be more productive.

Our incomes remain stubbornly low, and actually continue to slip backward in real terms.

Why ? Well unlike Australia we can't simply whip out in the backyard and dig up some more minerals.

We actually have to produce something that other people want.

The G'mint tries to "pick winners". But its very bad at it. The hi-tech revolution is a flop.

Of course there will be NZ companies who perform well in hi-tech industries, but it's a mistake to think that New Zealanders have a karma that will make us better at writing software than indians, or better at stuffing capacitors in PC boards than the chinese.

So what do we do ?

The answer is nothing. In fact the less we do, the better.

The best thing we could do is slash tax.

Heres how it works.

You and me both live in small towns, we are entrepreneurs and notice that there are lots of old people.

They are gonna die. So we set up as grave diggers.

We both buy a ute, an advert in the yellow pages and a shovel.

More than enough people die, we have full employment and are making a good wage, doing a grave a day each.

The difference is, you live in a high tax town, I live in a low tax town.

I take home a lot more money than you.

After meeting my families needs, I have extra cash. You don't, but you get family support so you are comfortable, just not cashed up.

I use my extra cash. A few beers, a motorcycle, and a new telly. This is good for the other businesses in my town.

But I also use some of cash for re-investment in my business. I buy myself a JCB digger.

Now I can dig all my 5 graves by lunchtime Tuesday. I take up the slack by doing some of the graves in your town that you can't dig. Now I'm making twice your income, and I'm finished early on Fridays.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The moral of the story :

Let the men and women who mortgage their houses to buy JCB diggers keep as much of the money they earn as possible. They will pick the winners and losers without government help. The economy will grow, and all who form part of it will be better off. Not just those who qualify for "working for families".

[Ocean1]

Yeah don't you love the fine print that you find on about the fourth label down . Soon to be on Norsewear too.

MADE IN CHINA

Apparently, (and surprisingly) not. I seem to have recently heard that they will remain in NZ, at least as far as socks go... Still, hardly the cutting edge, inventive, skill-based industry I'd like to see return.

Off to the salt mine, *sigh*

[Coldrider]

I concur - and too many of those leeching off the tax-payer do absolutely nothing to lift themselves up and be productive, paying and contributing members of society.

It is these leeches that consume the rest of the tax take, health, police, welfare, and generally pissing off citizens that pay taxes.

[scumdog]

It is these leeches that consume the rest of the tax take, health, police, welfare, and generally pissing off citizens that pay taxes.

Tell me about it!
Always whining about their 'rights', always know which agency to hold their hands out to, always going 'not guilty' 'cos they get legal aid, always bitching about what they don't have, always bleating about how life has done them wrong, always seem to be only scared of debt-collectors, losing their 'stash' and showers.....

Never actually getting ahead in life, always 'gunna' do something but never do despite having copiously more discretionary time than you or I.

[The Stranger:Me]

Many people are surprised when they take this test. Often they are surprised because they vote on individual issues rather than on the broad platforms of each party.
The test is based on what the political parties themselves espouse as their philosophies as well as what their actual policies are. The entire website is a very interesting read.

So, here's a challenge to all, take the test and discover what your economic and philosophical leanings actually are:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

My results in the past have placed me firmly in the left liberal quadrant but I'll do it again for this exercise.
Be honest answering the questions and post your index here.

As requested.
However I rarely place a high value on a test which is on a subjective subject. Unlike say a math exam where the answers will usually be right or wrong there is no right answer here and circumstances may dictate a different answer than I would have given in many of the questions.

[Waylander]

and when I lived in Canada most Canadians I spoke to found it disgusting that yanks stole the name of two continents as a label for their people. Likewise many other continental Americans I've chatted with online.

So much for hearsay.

It's my little protest and tough luck if you or anyone else doesn't like it.

IF it makes you feel big and impotent.

[terbang]

IF it makes you feel big and impotent.

Oh groan, I was enjoying the dabate.