Wire (cheese cutter) barriers

[motorbyclist]

again, wrbs don't have to be dangerous; a plastic guard is cheap.


padding every tree along every highway however, is a little bit stupid... and trees should be much less dangerous: they are further from the road, so you should be travelling a bit slower, they are either big and non-cut off limbs, or they are thin and bendy.

my years of crashing dirtbikes into all sorts of greenery at assorted velocities/rotation/ and on/under/behind/infront of bike tell me that while big pine trees are generally solid if you hit the trunk, branches do a lot to slow you, and both gorse and blackberry are the worst things to land in and have to climb out of, but the things to watch out for are the broken spikes left on a tree from the last crash. that thin, short, hard stick that once was a branch; might as well have a metal rod sticking out - and ltnz is putting millions of metal rods all along our highways.

edit: similarily, while a power pole will hurt you, possibly very badly, it isn't localised pressure; the pressure on your body will be much less severe and will just squish/break you, rather than grab and dismember....

[Zapf]

I dont now what the stats are but I would say they will change over time
Trees & poles have been here a lot longer than WRB's

We never had WRB's lining the both side of our roads before. Hence there will be next to no stats on people getting diced on them. We can wait until "WE" build up enough stats, but who will be left to protest?

[motorbyclist]

exactly - there's plenty of stats overseas, and plenty of solutions. why ltnz refuses to learn from other's mistakes is beyond me...


and i hear an argument that NZ roads are too different from europe... i cannot see how that can be true

[sAsLEX]

and i hear an argument that NZ roads are too different from europe... i cannot see how that can be true

we drive on the left maybe?

[motorbyclist]

haha yeah, cause that is really going to change the barrier statistics!

mind you, with some of the cagers i've seen on other forums i'm genuinely surprised no-one's tried to pull that yet

[Conquiztador]

In the past things were done without too much consideration about saefty.

Playgrounds were done with concrete flooring. We now realise that it was not a good idea and rubber matting has been fitted to all of them.

Cages were fitted with a motor and four wheels, a seat and some driving instruments. Off we went. Now you would not buy one without seatbelts and all sorts of saefty gizmos.

Kids were happily put in cars holding a lollipop as the only thing keeping them safe. Now they need to be placed in approved saefty seats

Cigarettes were sold as a must have thingy if you wanted to be considered cool. Now they have written warnings on them telling us that they kill.

There was a time when LSD was legal...

Ther government has decided that kids can not eat pies at schools as it is not good for them...

And after all this (and heaps more regulations) to keep us safe, they keep on fitting Wire Barriers to roads. Wire Barriers that have been proven to kill motorcyclists on impact. Wire Barriers that other countries have banned, are modifying or removing and replacing.

If there had been a decision to fit rubbish bins on the side of the roads that drivers can, without slowing down, throw their rubbish in. BUT this invention would have ripped one kids arm off. Do you think that the decision makers would say: "One kids arm a year is a price we are prepared to live with as this saves 6 millions a year in cleaning up costs..."

[candor]

and i hear an argument that NZ roads are too different from europe... i cannot see how that can be true

Yeah they're different in that we already underwent a 20 year widening program all across main highways, in preparation for concrete barriers (before graters invented).

The only way to solve this is to get all the taxpayers interested in road safety and educated and demanding a quality safe road system.

Most places wouldn't olerate a near third world toll like we have. Its both uneconomic and tragic. The tight purse strings are completely lose - lose.

There are some very sick people in politics - it's nothing less than the T word what they are doing to road users in this country. And they can,because on their salaries they can afford to drive tanks - even at speed,to the game.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=311590
Dan gets mentioned at bottom.

[swbarnett]

But what do the statistics indicate are more dangerous to bikers? WRB's or trees?

If you actually hit either probably the trees. However, the chances of hitting a tree are a lot lower than those of hitting a continuous barrier.

[raster]

At the moment we are shit scared of them. After a while we will be imune to them and become blazay(sp), the stats should start showing like they have overseas, they started with no casualties, took about 2 years for the numbers to show up.

I did notice north of Huntly, south of the Glenn Murry turnoff on the Freeway the WRB posts were rounded, did not have the sharp edge. I also didn't see any sign of repairs on that section.

Make the posts rounded and softer?????

3c worth?

[motorbyclist]

someone posted an engineer report about safetly devices, and one solution was a polystyrene cover over the posts. softer and bigger impact area - still not as good as an uninterrupted surface imo

[Ocean1]

someone posted an engineer report about safetly devices, and one solution was a polystyrene cover over the posts. softer and bigger impact area - still not as good as an uninterrupted surface imo

Yes, this is a solution I would rather not see implimented. It's likely to be one of the less costly answers, (if not the cheapest) but I don't believe it's an adequate one. A deceleration from impact velocity to zero over about 100mm might be better than exposure to the raw edges of the posts, but not much better.

From the data currently available I think a good cost/benefit engineering solution is the addition of some form of longitudinal isolating member. One potential issue with any modification is that it's likely to invalidate whatever engineering design analisys was used to specify the original WRB. The WRB manufacurer or an engineering consultant would certainly have to approve any design changes.

I like the idea of using an extruded plastic rail, perhaps EPDM. The price should be competitive with most other suitable materials, it's got a very low friction co-effecient, it's suitable for that environment. Maybe a section could be developed whereby the two rails either side of the posts would clip together, with that part of the rail cut away around each post....

[EJK]

OK I'm lost... this thread has reached 24th page and I can't find the flyers lol
Where are the flyers?!?!

Edit: Nevermind! I wasn't looking hard enough lol
Found it!

[motorbyclist]

I like the idea of using an extruded plastic rail, perhaps EPDM.

hell it can be wood for all i care!

just put some planks along the barrier legs, maybe a 30mm gap between planks maximum. shouldn't look to bad, will save limbs, and is a use for that pesky carbon

haha, save bikers AND the climate! the greens will love us

either that or a plastic/steel/tin sheet along the legs. plastic and wood should give out nicely when a car impacts so shouldn't do much to change it's car slowing ability, and they are cheap/easy to install/replace

and might help block headlights and thus reduce glare

[Pixie]

YThe WRB manufacurer or an engineering consultant would certainly have to approve any design changes.

Why? They obviously didn't approve the barrier's installation,less than 0.5 m from the lane

I like the idea of using an extruded plastic rail, perhaps EPDM. The price should be competitive with most other suitable materials, it's got a very low friction co-effecient, it's suitable for that environment. Maybe a section could be developed whereby the two rails either side of the posts would clip together, with that part of the rail cut away around each post....

Mototub,as they use in France is tubing extruded in recycled plastic - around 300mm in diameter.
Two parallel runs, one above the other are attached to the posts

Pics here
http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/cra...ier/index.html

[cooneyr]

....Mototub,as they use in France is tubing extruded in recycled plastic - around 300mm in diameter.
Two parallel runs, one above the other are attached to the posts

Pics here
http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/cra...ier/index.html

Just seen the pics of Mototub in the attachment of the post quoted. There is note in the attachment (FEMA doc) about them being supposedly applicable to the cable barrier (WRB). I'm not so sure that this is the case as an armco W rail (as shown in the picture in section 4.1.2 associated with the notes on Mototub) is mounted on 100mm x 100mm wooden posts normally (or steel post on bridges or atop retaining walls) is much more rigid than the posts used to support WRB's.

I think if there is any promotion of products to improve safety that they need to be appropriate for the barrier e.g. mototub for armco and Plastrail for WRB's. Make the point that this is the concept required (i.e. stop bodies hitting the posts) but the solution for NZ needs to be determined yet however these are some ideas from Europe. Weather and sun conditions are very different here from Europe (Europeans get sun burnt very easily over here and not at home as our sun is much harsher) i.e. UV effects on plastic etc.

Cheers R