Cheesecutter campaign

[sunhuntin]

In that case, a power pole is effectively like a big base ball bat... no passing through that, only a 100km/h swing through...

I like the amount of effort that goes into the WRB campaign, but given that the only person in NZ killed by one was muppet doing wheelies in a place he shouldn't, seems that all that effort would be better directed at things that are actually known to have a history of killing and/or maiming bikes in NZ.

thats bloody low and uncalled for. get your facts from those that were there at the time, not what the cops and media claim

as far as comparing power poles to cheese cutters, thats bull. ive never seen power poles placed at close intervals down the middle of a motorway. nor are they placed at regular intervals along open roads. at junctions, yes. but not all along the road. plus, at night, you can generally see power poles. most cheese cutters have no reflectors what so ever. and, with a power pole, theres only one you have to try and avoid, and you have a high chance of not hitting it.

[imdying]

Power pole - 100m - power pole - 100m - power pole...repeat.

And yet we still hit them... bit like bridge sidings.... not one for 10km, then whack, you just rode into one. Oops. Every 100m is small comfort given their unforgiving nature.

with a power pole, theres only one you have to try and avoid, and you have a high chance of not hitting it.

Good luck in the big wide world of target fixation... heck a TF campaign would save actual lives amongst the motorcycles of NZ imho. Tangible results, them I like

[MSTRS:Me]

Don't get me wrong...I know bikers die from hitting poles etc. But there is a greater chance of not hitting one, if 'you' leave the road that is taken away by the existence of a WRB

[sunhuntin]

Good luck in the big wide world of target fixation... heck a TF campaign would save actual lives amongst the motorcycles of NZ imho. Tangible results, them I like

id think many would have the sense to fix their target somewhere to the side of a pole. cheesecutters dont give that option. id say if target fixation was a problem, many hundreds more would be dead.

[MSTRS:Me]

id think many would have the sense to fix their target somewhere to the side of a pole. cheesecutters dont give that option. id say if target fixation was a problem, many hundreds more would be dead.

Oh TF is a big problem. He's right about that. It comes into being through the panic of being out of control of your machine.
Remember the phrase 'Look where you are going, cos you will go where you are looking" ??

[imdying]

id think many would have the sense to fix their target somewhere to the side of a pole. cheesecutters dont give that option. id say if target fixation was a problem, many hundreds more would be dead.

I'd go out on a limb and say that a couple must surely die from TF every year... an otherwise avoidable car, maybe a power pole, something solid that they could have otherwise avoided life. If you consider every life to be precious, then those are actual lives that would have been saved every year. Getting the WRBs covered would be nice, but seems less important than ramming the notion of better rider training down the throat of the LTSA (or whoever looks after that sort of stuff). I'd bitch and moan as loud as everyone else if I had to sit a practical when I renew my bike license, but I'd still believe in the back of my mind that someone somewhere would live through their next 'moment' as a result... heck, might even be me!

/edit: It's just the effort to gains ratio for WRBs seems to be a little out of kilter given the other known killers we face :/

[sunhuntin]

cant and wont speak for everyone, but personally, id be dead ten times over by now, but for remembering what mstrs posted up. as a result, i force my eyes in a different direction, and as such, stay alive. its not actually that hard.

and as for most other killers on the road, mostly you can do something, anything, to avoid it. if you get rear ended and shunted into a cheese cutter, there aint no way in hell you are going to walk away, target fixation or not.

and your comment on rider training, i do agree in part. there needs to be better training and testing for skills such as emergency stopping. and not from a pissy 20k either, but from real world speeds. dont stop properly? dont pass.

[Katman]

get your facts from those that were there at the time, not what the cops and media claim

What makes you think those that were there at the time are giving you the facts?

[Dakara]

What makes you think those that were there at the time are giving you the facts?

What makes you think they aren't?

To pass negative comments on a fatal accident in which you don't know anything about outside of the media/hearsay is just plain ignorant. People lie and the media exaggerates, so unless someone witnessed it with their own eyes they're just talking shit.

[MSTRS:Me]

What makes you think they aren't?

To pass negative comments on a fatal accident in which you don't know anything about outside of the media/hearsay is just plain ignorant. People lie and the media exaggerates, so unless someone witnessed it with their own eyes they're just talking shit.

Anyone whose head is not intimately acquainted with his arse can understand that.

[Katman]

What makes you think they aren't?

We were given a brain for many reasons.

I'm using mine.

[MSTRS:Me]

No you're not. Except insofaras you are espousing a theory based on your prejudices. Which takes little or no brain function to achieve.

[Katman]

No you're not. Except insofaras you are espousing a theory based on your prejudices. Which takes little or no brain function to achieve.

I have no prejudices.

If they haven't been mysteriously removed careful searching will turn up a number of threads containing reference to Daniel's ability to pull 160kph wheel stands that he could hold up forever. On the night in question his frame broke in two and I figure there's a damn good chance that that happened from landing a wheelstand.

[Dakara]

We were given a brain for many reasons.

I'm using mine.

To assume someone is lying as it's the stereotypical response to an accident is rather close-minded.

I'm not saying they were telling the truth, I have no clue. But I can imagine you wouldn't be too happy if you found yourself in an accident, not at fault, but had the blame put on you under the assumption that because your a biker you must of been fucking around.

But back on topic.

All the previous posts about statistics really are a crock. The great thing about statistics is you can manipulate them to show whatever you want depending on how they are presented.

"Far more Bikers are killed from ignoring the law, blah blah blah"

Of course, we all know that. What you need to do is look at the relevant statistics. Don't compare # of Cheesecutter deaths to Concrete barriers. That's a Biased sample, as there are different quantities, in differen't areas/locations. What you need to look at is the mortality rate, or casualty rate of each.

Take the number of bikers to hit a concrete barrier over say a 5 year period.

How many of them died?

How many of those deaths were a result of hitting the barrier? And put that into a percentage.

So X% of bikers to hit a concrete barrier died as a direct result of hitting the barrier

Then do the same for the cheesecutter barriers (Y%) (and others)

Then compare X and Y. (very simplistic overview, but I gave up Stats after Bursary )

There's a famous quote most people should know, (I forget who said it). If one person dies it's a tragedy, if 1,000,000 people die it's a statistic. The point in the Cheesecutter campaign is to avoid further tragedies, thus creating another statistic.

[MSTRS:Me]

I have no prejudices.

If they haven't been mysteriously removed careful searching will turn up a number of threads containing reference to Daniel's ability to pull 160kph wheel stands that he could hold up forever. On the night in question his frame broke in two and I figure there's a damn good chance that that happened from landing a wheelstand.

R-i-g-h-t.....
As for the rest, perhaps he was known for wheelies. Doesn't mean he was landing one at the time of his accident. We also don't know that the frame broke...just that his father has said from what he saw of the wreck that it was most likely.
Again...anyone who wasn't there doesn't know anything for sure. Even Zapf didn't see, and he was there. (was in front as I understand, so only become aware of no light following)