Cheesecutter campaign

**Hitcher** · 5th December 2007, 20:23

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Transit DO NOT need to go over old ground.

There are some issues of "face saving" here. They won't want to admit or be forced to admit that they were wrong or doing things counter to manufacturers' recommendations. There are issues of liability and criminal negligence that they and their political masters will be keen to avoid or mitigate.

Telling them that they're wrong is one thing. Providing mutually-beneficial solutions quite another. Doing the latter will build strong and enduring relationships with these dudes that we can turn to our advantage for other safety matters of importance to motorcyclists.

**Grub** · 5th December 2007, 20:41

Originally Posted by MSTRS

I'm sorry to rain on this otherwise sensible parade, but the research is out there all over the world. NZ is not unique and the rest of the world understands what works or has done away with because it doesn't. Transit DO NOT need to go over old ground.

No of course they don't, but I truely believe that when they went down this route they didn't do any research. They didn't know they had to.

They were probably approached by a contractor or an vendor with this amazing new system. The vendor could show how it was being installed all over the world and tell them how much cheaper they are than any other system. Ask anyone who has worked in one of Wellington's beauracacies and they will nod as I do and see how the discussion would have gone and how easily it would have been adopted without due consideration.

I guess I'm saying that it's just possible they are only now hearing about all the negatives and only now hearing (because they are looking) at all this other research. For the first tiem, standing there in the sun of Taupo, I heard them acknowledge the bans and partial bans in many countries.

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th December 2007, 20:48

P'raps youse fulllas is rite. Wot wood I no?

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 5th December 2007, 21:11

Originally Posted by Hitcher

There are some issues of "face saving" here. They won't want to admit or be forced to admit that they were wrong or doing things counter to manufacturers' recommendations. There are issues of liability and criminal negligence that they and their political masters will be keen to avoid or mitigate.

Telling them that they're wrong is one thing. Providing mutually-beneficial solutions quite another. Doing the latter will build strong and enduring relationships with these dudes that we can turn to our advantage for other safety matters of importance to motorcyclists.

How many need to die while we build the relationships?

I am old enough to know what you are saying Hitcher but Dead is Dead.

If you think we took the day off work to humour ourselves and preach to our converted you are wrong. We need to get people to think about this issue. Most people just don't get it. So what is next if you don't want us out in public? Will the petition do it? Remember this government just made retrospective law to make their sins legal. They will pass a law to gag people from speaking out tonight.

However I respect your opinions Hitcher so best you take the lead and keep up the dialog with them. I will take the guns home and watch the news to see how many will die while we give room for them to save face and revisit the issue and blame someone else.

Sometimes you gota smack the kids to save them from themselves in the future. Yep I am a bad parent as well. Lucky my kids were big enough to survive it and become good citizens.

Emotive? Yep. Get talking to them. What do we do in the mean time? Maybe list how many KM go in each week?

Thanks to all the people that have tried to make a difference. Everyone of you are trying to save lives. We all do it in different ways but we seem to be so devided that we may acheive litle. Devided we fall. Look at KB. How many different threads? I can't spend enough time to read them all.

Best I just go to work and forget them. After all we don't have them in the Hawkes Bay .. yet.......

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 5th December 2007, 21:21

I don't get this. Wellington is littered with these things. So is Auckland. And a few other places and we only get 45 bikes to the rally to address the very people that make the decisions. Maybe 45 of us are misguided and wrong. Beats me. Maybe we should all slow down and ride at a safe 25 KMh so if we strike oil or ice or melted tar we can save ourselves. FFS

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th December 2007, 21:24

Originally Posted by Gixxer 4 ever

Best I just go to work and forget them. After all we don't have them in the Hawkes Bay .. yet.......

And nor will there be!

**Stickchick** · 5th December 2007, 21:28

Originally Posted by MSTRS

And nor will there be!

I was actually talking to a few Fulton Hogan guys from here and they are in the same mind as everyone else....They do not want these barriers in the HB. Maybe another avenue of people to approach or even have on side?

**Grub** · 5th December 2007, 21:30

Originally Posted by MSTRS

P'raps youse fulllas is rite. Wot wood I no?

I tell ya wot I no.

You 'n' Yungatart wrote one of the best statements I've ever heard. It was balanced, strong, non-combative but man it had teeth!! I loved hearing it again.

I don't blame the Transit Road Safety and Policy Manager for having trouble looking you in the eye. When did a naughty schoolboy or girl last look at the teacher that was telling them off? LOL

Great stuff you two

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th December 2007, 21:30

Originally Posted by Stickchick

I was actually talking to a few Fulton Hogan guys from here and they are in the same mind as everyone else....They do not want these barriers in the HB. Maybe another avenue of people to approach or even have on side?

In deed! Can you find out if they are involved in the installation of these elsewhere?

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th December 2007, 21:32

Originally Posted by Grub

I tell ya wot I no.

You 'n' Yungatart wrote one of the best statements I've ever heard. It was balanced, strong, non-combative but man it had teeth!! I loved hearing it again.

I don't blame the Transit Road Safety and Policy Manager for having trouble looking you in the eye. When did a naughty schoolboy or girl last look at the teacher that was telling them off? LOL

Great stuff you two

Awww....shucks.....we does our bests...Thanks for saying so!

**Stickchick** · 5th December 2007, 21:42

Originally Posted by MSTRS

In deed! Can you find out if they are involved in the installation of these elsewhere?

Sure, I should be able to make a few calls....Will let you know tomorrow night at some stage.

Will also talk to them about signing the petition too

**RiderInBlack** · 6th December 2007, 07:55

We do need ta keep the general awareness of these barriers high and make sure more than just bikers understand our issue with them, BUT it would do us no good at all to loose the plot and and get too radical. That would only put the general population against us (even other bikers).

We need to step-up our adverting/public awareness more yet. Good articles and advising in National Media (papers, mags, radio). Has anything been on (God forbid) "Talk Back Radio" concerning this campaign? Looking forward ta seeing something in the Bike Mags with a link for the petition in it. How are we going on those fronts?

Don't think Hawkes Bay is safe from having those barriers when I see them on this sides of the road around Walkworth and Wellsford.

**MSTRS:Me** · 7th December 2007, 17:40

Had a nice chat with our local MP, Chris Tremain today. He knew nothing about the whole issue, but now understands where we are coming from and seems supportive. He said that we are doing the right things so far, and we need to keep it up as far as getting out there in public etc. He also says that face-to-face with people in the right positions will go even further in getting a result, but don't expect an overnight solution (we knew that).

He got on his blackberry while I was there and instructed (his parliamentary secretary?) to have some questions put to the Min.of Transport in the House...
1. How many kms of this stuff currently exist on Transit's network?
2. What is Transit's policy for determining installation?
3. Does Transit have the intention of reviewing it's use?
Answers to be expected when Parliament resumes after Xmas.

Chris said that it would be most useful for (one of?) us to have a meeting with David Bennett, National's associate spokesman for Transport. Could you Welly people get together with Hitcher and organise this?

On Tuesday I am meeting with a journo here who fronts our equivalent of the Hutt News.