Cheesecutter campaign

[bogan]

ah, so yeh, must have been something just out of frame. I guess the consequences of hitting the barrier are evaluated for cars only though.

[inlinefour]

So are you suggesting that because I ride a bike and choose to take some concern for the way those building our roads take little regard for me or my follow bikers, that I should stay in bed or drive a car I'm really start ta think ya trying too get the thread to PD by trolling.

No. I'm saying the whole cheese cutter winge, is PD and it never should have been allowed to become what it is now. Why is it, the older I get, the more people bitch and moan? Over things that would have ever been an issue when I was young and anyone making a drama, would have been told to shut up. We are been over run by pansies and the planet is becoming a hell in a handbag.

[MSTRS:Me]

No. I'm saying the whole cheese cutter winge, is PD and it never should have been allowed to become what it is now. Why is it, the older I get, the more people bitch and moan? Over things that would have ever been an issue when I was young and anyone making a drama, would have been told to shut up. We are been over run by pansies and the planet is becoming a hell in a handbag.

When the whole of society is becoming more and more 'controlled' by laws etc to keep us safe from ourselves (or whatever), we are inundated by ads about safety at play - in the home - at work, and kids are so often mollycoddled at school etc because they aren't allowed to do the same sort of shit 'we' did, and OSH is right there to determine fault to punish the evil wrong doer - and so on...
Is it any wonder that when we see something that is dangerous to us, which the authorities have adopted for 'safety purposes'...then we are going to make noise about it.
Tell you what - make your home safe from burglars by electrifying all the door handles and window catches, hey even put up a warning sign if you like...there's no problem if no-one touches a live'un eh? - let us know how you get on.

[MSTRS:Me]

Here's someone else who gets it - not CC etc, but pertinent to my post above

[inlinefour]

When the whole of society is becoming more and more 'controlled' by laws etc to keep us safe from ourselves (or whatever), we are inundated by ads about safety at play - in the home - at work, and kids are so often mollycoddled at school etc because they aren't allowed to do the same sort of shit 'we' did, and OSH is right there to determine fault to punish the evil wrong doer - and so on...
Is it any wonder that when we see something that is dangerous to us, which the authorities have adopted for 'safety purposes'...then we are going to make noise about it.
Tell you what - make your home safe from burglars by electrifying all the door handles and window catches, hey even put up a warning sign if you like...there's no problem if no-one touches a live'un eh? - let us know how you get on.

To be honest I would rather get an ak47 and just yell out for them to move. As a moving target is harder to shoot and I'm tired of shooting the dimwits who don't move.

Society are being herded towards not being able to look after themselves or survive, unless they are wrapped up in cotton wool. If anyone thinks this is a good move, you must be mad.

What is next to be complained about?

[swbarnett]

Society are being herded towards not being able to look after themselves or survive, unless they are wrapped up in cotton wool. If anyone thinks this is a good move, you must be mad.

I don't think you'll get much argument on this point. Certainly not from me.

The problem with WRBs for me is not one of safety (although it's pretty unnerving when you're being tailgated by a truck with a snail in front and there's a WRB on either side of your lane), it's about discrimination. We have enough trouble with being told we're a suicidal minority without being told that we're also a throw away comodity in the name of a false economy.

[inlinefour]

I don't think you'll get much argument on this point. Certainly not from me.

The problem with WRBs for me is not one of safety (although it's pretty unnerving when you're being tailgated by a truck with a snail in front and there's a WRB on either side of your lane), it's about discrimination. We have enough trouble with being told we're a suicidal minority without being told that we're also a throw away comodity in the name of a false economy.

That might be true. But it is your personal choice to be on a motorcycle in that particular situation. Rather than taking responsibility for it completely yourself, your blaming someone else. Hitting the truck is far more dangerous than any wire barrier running down the side of the road.

Riding a motorcycle and complaining about doing it, is really bloody stupid.

[swbarnett]

That might be true. But it is your personal choice to be on a motorcycle in that particular situation.

Yes, and no. Yes, I chose to ride between the WRBs given that they were there but I did not choose to be tailgated and I did not choose to have a slow driver in front.

Rather than taking responsibility for it completely yourself, your blaming someone else.

No, I do take responsibility for myself. You are right that if I get hit by the truck I am responsible for being there in the first place. My problem is that the prescence of WRBs (or any barrier for that matter) on the white line to either side of a single lane make that piece of road effectively impossible to travel with any reasonable degree of safety on a motorcycle unless you are alone on the road.

I'm curious. How would you react if the truck in this situation decided to rear-end you? You can't speed up and the prescence of a barrier on either side denies you any escape route.

Hitting the truck is far more dangerous than any wire barrier running down the side of the road.

I would rather be run over by a truck than run into a WRB and open road speeds. You have more chance of surviving the truck.

Riding a motorcycle and complaining about doing it, is really bloody stupid.

Agreed. But I'm not complaining about riding. I'm complaining about a "safety" device being anything but when motorcycles are factored in to the equation. It is the hypocrisy and discrimination that annoys me.

[MSTRS:Me]

... the prescence of a barrier on either side denies you any escape route. Or even on one side only, because often that is where your escape route would be

I would rather be run over by a truck than run into a WRB and open road speeds. You have more chance of surviving the truck. I doubt that.

...But I'm not complaining about riding. I'm complaining about a "safety" device being anything but when motorcycles are factored in to the equation. It is the hypocrisy and discrimination that annoys me. A device that promises safety for some and death for others is NOT a safety device, which is all we are saying.

I truly do not understand anyonme who rides (or did) not being against these killer fences. Esp when there are safer alternatives that could be used.

[swbarnett]

Being hit by a truck is safer than hitting a WRB because the dynamics of the collision matter when you're hit by a truck. It doesn't matter how you hit a WRB, the result only depends on how fast you hit it.

[MSTRS:Me]

Put it this way...dynamics and speed aside...I wouldn't take bets on it.

[inlinefour]

Yes, and no. Yes, I chose to ride between the WRBs given that they were there but I did not choose to be tailgated and I did not choose to have a slow driver in front.


No, I do take responsibility for myself. You are right that if I get hit by the truck I am responsible for being there in the first place. My problem is that the prescence of WRBs (or any barrier for that matter) on the white line to either side of a single lane make that piece of road effectively impossible to travel with any reasonable degree of safety on a motorcycle unless you are alone on the road.

I'm curious. How would you react if the truck in this situation decided to rear-end you? You can't speed up and the prescence of a barrier on either side denies you any escape route.


I would rather be run over by a truck than run into a WRB and open road speeds. You have more chance of surviving the truck.


Agreed. But I'm not complaining about riding. I'm complaining about a "safety" device being anything but when motorcycles are factored in to the equation. It is the hypocrisy and discrimination that annoys me.

There is hypocrisy and discrimination everywhere. If you apply the definition to everything that happens around the world. We live in this wonderful country that makes it much safer to ride and looks after their own, if the worst happens. You lot need to be bloody thankful that you don't live in India or Thailand or any other country. That you truely take your life into your own hands, when riding a motorcycle. Go talk about hypocrisy and discrimination over there and your likely to get killed for your trouble.

This is what is so farked with this country. There are so many people in NZ who are bleating and moaning over many different things. No one is happy with what we have got and would rather bleat and moan. Over what is considered not fair or what they think we should have.

We need a Govt that is prepared to say "no". They are just too scared of being voted out during the next election There are so many so called adults who resort to anything provided it gets what they want. What happened to the time that if you couldn't afford something, you went without, or the time that poor behavour was put back onto the individual(s) doing it? It was replaced with the credit era, instand gratification and depression, if it all goes wrong.

It worries me the way that the country is going. Most don't have a clue to whats happening around the world, as they cannot be bothered, or just can't do the research. Its probably a good thing that perhaps only a few centuries time. The Earth is likely to no longer be able to sustain life in many or most of the land mass. The stuff you really need to be worried about, most people are not even aware of. Its amazing the information thats now available, the doccos and other programming on Sky, that hints on how bad things could get. When you consider it all, its not a good outlook. But humanity is just worried about the here and now. Ultimately we might be taken down by our own ignorance and stupidity. I hope they are unable to terraform Mars if the Earth is really in trouble, as it would be sad if mankind was allowed to stuff up another planet. Talk about hypocrisy and discrimination then!

But hey, don't worry about the future generations. Keep on whinging about something as pathetic as wire cable road barriers. After all, bitching and moaning is one thing that people in this country do really well. Go and spend a week in a slum, might change your attitudes then? Probably not, as like so many others, its all just about yourself and its bloody embarrassing.

[swbarnett]

Put it this way...dynamics and speed aside...I wouldn't take bets on it.

If you get under the truck, you're pretty much screwed. However, if they just bump you from behind then it's the WRBs you have to worry about. Can't say I've tested this, though, it's seems logical (but I could be wrong).

[swbarnett]

IL4, in many ways I actually agree with everything you're saying. The world has indeed gone safety mad and I'm the first to say that NZ's roads and vehicles are plenty safe enough and we don't need to go any further (truth be told I think we've already gone too far, my bike is from the mid 80s ant it suffers not at all from the lack of the likes of ABS, kick stand swithes etc.).

I am very glad to be living in a country with some semblence of freedom on the roads and where I am free to whatever the hell I like within reason. I bleat about very little publicly and generally just get on with enjoying life.

However, I take issue when:

1. My hard earned tax money is used for nefarious purposes.
2. Safety measures are taken where no need exists.
3. Those safety measures actually make the situation worse.
4. I, or a group to which I belong, am sidelined and labelled as a throw away 2nd class citezin.

and I feel that there just might be something that can be done about it.

WRBs fit all the above criteria and have already been banned in some parts of Europe so why not here?

I am only speaking up now because I see WRBs (and to a slighter lesser extent any barrier) as pandering to the PC bleating and moaning NZ that you despise so much (as do I). They are only installed because of the commonly held modern belief that NOONE should be allowed to die of anything but old age (and I think most would even eliminate this if they could). As a result, we are being forced into a world where all life has been removed because it might be dangerous. I want to see all barriers removed anywhere except multilane motorways but I will settle for WRBs being replaced with an alternative that does the same job for all.

As to your comments about the the Earth no longer sustainging the human population. I fully agree that this is inevitable given the current direction of humankind on this planet. However, I see no way out of it. It is in the nature of all animals to exploit their environment to the fullest extent of which they are capable. Because we have analytical minds we are able to exploit ours to breaking point. Unless you can get all 6 billion inhabitants to go against their nature this is not going to change. Given this I feel perfectly comfortable not ignoring, but being resigned to, the plight of the future generations and saying "hang the sense of it, I'd far rather be happy than right any day".

[Urano]

There is hypocrisy and discrimination everywhere. If you apply the definition to everything that happens around the world. We live in this wonderful country that makes it much safer to ride and looks after their own, if the worst happens. You lot need to be bloody thankful that you don't live in India or Thailand or any other country. That you truely take your life into your own hands, when riding a motorcycle. Go talk about hypocrisy and discrimination over there and your likely to get killed for your trouble.


Go and spend a week in a slum, might change your attitudes then? Probably not, as like so many others, its all just about yourself and its bloody embarrassing.

i'm getting in the hope you are really trolling this topic, and this is not what you think truly...

what you just said is incredibly stupid, and please consider this referred to your word only, as i don't know you personally...

the "don't moan, there's someone living in worse conditions than you" is a senseless and blind statement.
what does it mean? here in italy we had people putting pesticides in bread, or altering wine, or involved in falsification of mozzarella: what should we say? "no, it's ok, thing to the poor darfur children, they don't have mozzarella at all. let's eat fake cheese".
there's been cases of houses builded up with sea sand in the cement, so the salt had corroded the steel bars inside and the house fell down with someone below it. "no, it's ok. stop moaning and think to the poor slum guys, they don't have a house at all"
there's been cases of false CE marked helmets, sold in shops. "no, it's ok, think to the poor rider in india they don't wear helmets at all. let's wear a fake one".

i've probably misunderstood what the life is like there in nz, but here i pay taxes and fees to have a certain level of service. i expect streets to have the best possible safety feature, for all of the users. i expect it not to have holes, not to have wrong radius turn, to have horizontal marks in good conditions, and to have safety barriers that actually do the best to safe ALL OF US if something during my ride goes wrong.

sorry pal, but "stop moaning and think at the poor bolivians" http://www.oddee.com/item_96660.aspx is an idiotic statement.