Cheesecutter campaign

[MSTRS:Me]

And the UK is removing armco and WRBs from the "central reservation" and replacing them with concrete as they come to the end of their usable life-span.

The least Transit can do is stop installing them. Everyone else seems to have figured out that's a good idea.

The problem with these morons is there's little point getting into a discussion via post about it. It's no more likely to change their minds than arguing with someone on a forum. Their position is entrenched and you'll soon enough get a "I hope you now agree with me as I've stopped reading your letters" ending. You got one close on this letter.

The only thing that will change anything is public opinion or by fluke getting someone sympathetic in the right position. I hate to say it but I think Transit are too anti-motorcycle to see that happen any time soon.

That has the ring of truth.
Time for militant action then ??? If the powers-that-be won't listen to logical, reasoned argument - we are left with little else. Or give up?

[discotex]

That has the ring of truth.
Time for militant action then ??? If the powers-that-be won't listen to logical, reasoned argument - we are left with little else. Or give up?

Not sure really... It's the age old issue. Militancy doesn't usually achieve the goal either as the establishment just steps up their anti-campaign and jails the activists.

Best bet is to get more bikers on the road until there's enough of us that they fear us voting against them. Either that or fight the propaganda war and hammer the point home next time someone is injured or killed hitting one of these.

[WelshWizard]

Response received from Harry head in the sand Duynhoven....
I can think of so many responses to the contents, but I suspect a sane(r) head might be reqd here. The tired platitudes, the assumption that motorcyclists are all speed/drug/booze crazed maniacs, the 'no more dangerous than other barrier types', Daniel's alleged speed,...hell, he addressed his sole response to Yungatart and I as 'Mr + Mrs B...' when we wrote independently and separately to him.

So much for facts,
quoteing speed as a reason for Dans accident because a cop state's on TV in an interview the same morning before all evidence is in,They had not even had their crash engineers look at the Bike then, or any other evidence, and the cop totally ignored the one and only witness to the actual crash, I say again sworn statement of witness puts Dans bike at about 100kph at the time of the accident, it's a motorway speed limit is 100kph and it's comon knowledge that the cops except 110kph as the cut off before they do anything, or even consider you are breaking the speed limit in other Countries if they have a speed limit, just 1 kph over and you can be done for speeding.
As for Drugs and Alcohol Path Lab confirms that Dan had neither in his sytem, so Duynjovens atempt to blacken the details of Dan's accident just shows his metal ability is highly lacking, because if he had the facts he would not make such rash statements by his trying to stereo type this accident


H Duynjoven MP for New Plymouth needs to not speculate but get the facts, these facts will not be readaly available untill after the inquest. and then I think we need more than spluttering from these people, but true answers as the truth will be out,
(As I have stated previously our investigators differ greatly from the view of the Police.)

So in the mean time all we can do is keep hammering away, and if we get good responces from another
party we all know the answer this year. even though I don't belive a change of government will bring a change to the attitude of LTNZ, as they even ignore the safety Standards of New Zealand

[MSTRS:Me]

Perhaps you could contact him in your capacity as Daniel's dad, and put Harry Tosspot in receipt of what you know from investigations and pathologist.
This tosser needs a decent serve....Remember the statement made by the Transport portfolio ministers at the very beginning of this campaign??
Hon Annette King, Minister of Transport, Hon Judith Tizard & Hon Harry Duynhaven, Associate Ministers of Transport send a message to the rally for Safe Motorway Barriers.
We are all at the Labour Party Conference and we regret we cannot meet you, here at the Auckland Domain.
We support your campaign for safer roads for all New Zealanders and will work with Transit New Zealand to make sure that the barriers separating opposing lanes on our motorways are not a risk for motorcyclists.
Judith Tizard, for Annette & Harry Taken from the front page of the campaign website.

[WelshWizard]

We need to ask them why they fail to comply with their own government safety standards and why is Osh or what ever they call them selve not looking at the safety records of these things we all know, because we have taken time to look that these WRB's fail to stop cars, Fail to Stop lorries, Fail in a manor that is safe for motorcycles , Hell 5 minutes on the Net and they can find examples of how these things have failed leading to the death of many people, and in one case a Lady Police officer, maybe once a few Cops in New Zealand have died on these things the NZ Police will start complaining as well, I suspect the ones on Motorcycles may in practice already do so but are out numbered by the car driving ones who tell them they are paraniod or are foolish!

[WelshWizard]

Every thing (he) said raises my hackles, but a standout one has to be 'without barriers all we have is a white line...' How many kms of unbarriered roads do we have, and is he subtley suggesting that every road is to be treated?

But in certain areas they are removeing Concrete barriers to install these things.

[WelshWizard]

Cut and paste of an e-mail I recieved fron the

Transportation Research Board

500 Fifth St., NW

Washington, DC 20001

USA

Dear Mr***********

Your request was forwarded to me. I did a search in our database Transportation Research Information Service (TRIS) at http://tris.trb.org/about and retrieved two documents. I’ll let you know if I get any further information.



Title:
Motorcycle Impacts into Roadside Barriers – Real-World Accident Studies, Crash Tests and Simulations Carried Out in Germany and Australia

Accession No:
01066485

Authors:
· Berg, F Alexander

· Rucker, Peter

· Gartner, Marcus

· Konig, Jens

· Grzebieta, Raphael H

raphael.grzebieta@eng.monash.edu.au

· Zou, Roger

Conference Title:
· 19th International Technical Conference on the Enhanced Safety of Vehicles

Date Held: 20050606 - 20050609

Washington, DC , United States

Corp. Authors
/ Publisher:
· National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov

400 7th Street, SW

Washington, DC 20590 USA

Publication Date:
20050600

Description:
13p; Figures; Photos; References(7); Tables(7)

Media Type:
Web

Languages:
English

Abstract:
Roadside protection systems such as steel guard rails or concrete barriers were originally developed to protect occupants of cars and/or trucks – but not to protect impacting motorcycle riders. Motorcycle rider crashes into such barriers have been identified as resulting in severe injuries and hence has become a subject of road safety research. The German Federal Highway Research Institute (BASt) requested DEKRA Accident Research to analyze real-world crashes involving motorcycles impacting roadside barriers and to identify typical crash characteristics for full-scale crash tests of a conventional steel system and a concrete barrier. A study of 57 real-world crashes identified two crash test scenarios which have been carried out: one with the motorcycle driven in an upright position and one with the motorcycle with the rider sliding on the road surface. The pre-crash velocity chosen was 60 km/h. The impact angle was 12° for the upright driven motorcycle and 25° for the motorcycle and rider sliding. Two crash tests have been conducted to analyze impacts onto conventional steel guard rails and two tests to analyze impacts onto a concrete barrier. Two additional full-scale crash tests were carried out to analyze the behavior of a modified roadside protection system made from steel. A second phase of the work involved carrying out computer simulations at Monash University?s Department of Civil Engineering. The DEKRA results from the crash test, where the upright motorcycle impacts the concrete barrier, were used to validate a MADYMO motorcycle-barrier model. This model was then used to investigate other impact speeds, a 25° impact angle scenario and different impact scenarios between an upright motorcycle and a wire rope barrier system. The results revealed that the risk for motorcyclists of being injured when colliding with either a wire rope or a concrete barrier will be high. The paper describes the relevant real-world accident scenarios, the different roadside protection systems used for the tests, the crash tests, the modeling simulations and the results, and proposes improvements to barrier systems to reduce injury severity.

TRT Terms:
Accident investigation; Barriers (Roads); Guardrails; Impact tests; Injury severity; Motorcycle accidents; Motorcycles; Simulation; Velocity; Wire rope

Geographical
Terms:
Australia; Germany

Identifier Terms:
MADYMO (Computer program)

Other Terms:
Impact angle

Subject Areas:
I80 Accident studies; H51 SAFETY; H53 VEHICLE CHARACTERISTICS; I91 Vehicle design and safety

Report Number:
05-0095

Availability:
· National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov

400 7th Street, SW

Washington, DC 20590 USA

URLs:
Document: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd.../05-0095-O.pdf

TRIS Files:
HRIS

Database:
TRIS Online




Title:
MOTORCYCLE AND SAFETY BARRIER CRASH-TESTING: FEASIBILITY STUDY

Accession No:
00806707

Authors:
· Duncan, C

· CORBEN, B

· TRUEDSSON, N

· Tingvall, C.

Journal Title:
· Publication of: University of Adelaide, Australia

Publisher: University of Adelaide, Australia

ISSN: 0810-770X

Corp. Authors
/ Publisher:
· Monash University, Australia

Accident Research Centre, Wellington Road

Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia

· Australian Transport Safety Bureau

www.atsb.gov.au

P.O. Box 967, Civic Square

Canberra ACT 2608, Australia

· University of Adelaide, Australia

Road Accident Research Unit

Adelaide 5005, Australia

Publication Date:
20001200

Description:
61 p.; Figures(12); References(33); Tables(1)

Languages:
English

Abstract:
Road safety barriers are designed to enhance the safety of the road infrastructure by containing errant vehicles and reducing the severity of off-path collisions. Experience indicates that conventional barrier systems used in accordance with specific guidelines have performed well in protecting the occupants of passenger cars. However, their effects on the safety of motorcyclists, is somewhat of a problem. Given the limited available information on motorcycle-carrier interactions and the lack of established procedures for motorcycle crash-testing, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) commissioned a preliminary investigation of relevant issues. The main purpose of the project was to recommend a research method for investigating the interactions between motorcycles and road safety barriers. Specific objectives were to: (1) identify barrier design issues likely to impact motorcycle rider safety; (2) identify relevant rider injury mechanisms; (3) identify and assess the feasibility of research methods for investigating interaction between motorcycles and safety barriers; and (4) recommend a research program using the aims of the project described above.

TRT Terms:
Barriers (Roads); Collisions; Computers; Crash injuries; Motorcycle accidents; Occupant protection devices; Safety; Simulation

Subject Areas:
H21 FACILITIES DESIGN; I21 Highway and transport planning

ISBN:
0642255563

Report Number:
CR 201

Availability:
· Australian Transport Safety Bureau

www.atsb.gov.au

Canberra ACT 2608, Australia

TRIS Files:
HRIS

Database:
TRIS Online




I hope this helps.



Jessica Fomalont

Librarian

Transportation Research Board

500 Fifth St., NW

Washington, DC 20001

USA

(202) 334-2989

(202) 334-2527 (fax)

jfomalont@nas.edu

[henry]

I see they are putting cheese cutters on the sides of the road now too, eg. SH 1 near Waikanae. So much for preventing head on accidents.

[sunhuntin]

thats to protect the ditches. the side barriers have been there a few months now. we have them up here as well... 2 strands on the left leading south to turakina, and one strand leading north to kaitoke. the kaitoke one i damn near hit one night due to lack of reflectors.

mstrs... we CANNOT give up. i wish i knew what the answer was.

[Katman]

Until motorcyclists take a fresh look at how they accept personal responsibility the Cheesecutter campaign will continue to struggle for any real degree of support.

[sunhuntin]

how can one take "personal responsibility" if you are behind the car that hits the barrier and gets flicked back into you? hard to stop in half the distance when that distance is closing in reverse. what about if a car fails to stop, throwing you into them. if i recall, youve been asked that before, but im yet to see your answer.

try preaching to someone else, like skidmark, who actually has something to learn.

[MSTRS:Me]

Just sent to the office of Harry Hopeless...
I am in receipt of a typed and posted regular letter from Harry Duynhoven on this subject. I was not impressed with the tone he took which was one of basic disinterest, that Transit know best and that these Cheesecutters are of no danger to motorcyclists. He is right in one thing only...no danger exists ONLY if no collision with the barrier occurs. I wish to strongly protest his failure to understand the concern motorcyclists have with these so-called 'safety barriers'. I would further protest his 'understanding' of the reason for the death of Daniel Evans - I am aware from Daniel's father that all is not what it seemed at the time of the accident, and we await the crash investigator's report with interest.
I also bring Harry's attention to his own words in conjunction with Annette King and Judith Tizard...
Hon Annette King, Minister of Transport, Hon Judith Tizard & Hon Harry
Duynhaven, Associate Ministers of Transport send a message to the rally for
Safe Motorway Barriers.
We are all at the Labour Party Conference and we regret we cannot meet you, here at the Auckland Domain.
We support your campaign for safer roads for all New Zealanders and will work with Transit New Zealand to make sure that the barriers separating
opposing lanes on our motorways are not a risk for motorcyclists.
Judith Tizard, for Annette & Harry

[sunhuntin]

nice one, sir. see what form response that gets.

[Waxxa]

Perhaps we (bikers) need to stage a another protest ride, co-ordinated around the main centres were these 'Cheesecutters' are and continue these 'protest rides' every 3-4 months say... invite media to cover the 'rides'.

How about a 'ride' to LTSA head offfice to protest?

I guess I'm trying to say is we also need this protest to be visual, in the publics eye as well as the paper-war.

[Grumpy]

Interesting article in the Domion this morning about the benifitsof concrete barriers as apposed to WRB's. Unfortunately I couldn't find it online but it showed that it's not just bikers that have an issue with them. The bloke that wrote it was connected to the concrete industry so one could argue that he has a vested interest but it raised some good points.