Cheesecutter campaign

[MSTRS:Me]

.... hence my issue with removing wrsb to prevent one or two fatalities every 5 years when they`be prevented (say) 20 deaths in that time.

Asked someone else, and now you too... Are you thick?
Where have we asked for it's removal?
True, we'd like to see it replaced with smooth barriers, but all we are asking is that no more be installed while proper studies targetted to the needs of motorcyclists are carried out. Or brought to light from overseas studies (of which there is plenty). And when those studies show the risk posed by naked wires/posts, that something is done to cover or replace them.

[swbarnett]

And WRSB and armco are installed to protect cuttings, cliffs, estuaries etc (which are also always there)

A lot of the time I'd rather take my chances with the cliff. Better off with concrete or modified armco.

[swbarnett]

Funnily enough we don`t just guess these things, we undertake modelling to determine the likelihood of collisions, and there is always years of historical data to back-analyse.

You said that "every" time a WRB was damaged it meant a collision avoided. This I simply don't believe. There's not always a car on the other side.

Considering traffic and population growth it has in real terms.

Fair point. However I think it's more likely that improvements in vehicle safety are responsible (just a personal observation).

All human life is valued equally, hence my issue with removing wrsb to prevent one or two fatalities every 5 years when they`be prevented (say) 20 deaths in that time.

You don't sacrifice one section of society for another. Especially when there are perfectly viable (and possibly cheaper in the long term) alternative barriers that treat everyone equally.

[WelshWizard]

As others have noted i`m certainly not employed by any barrier manufacturers...

Regarding your points - The first principle when designing barriers is to ask whether the hazard posed by the barrier is less than the hazard we`re protecting against. Barriers aside from concrete F type are designed to deflect and absorb impact, variables like post spacing and rail type are changed to suit particular applications.

You`ll notice the evolution in barrier end terminals over the years, wire rope barriers have evolved as well.

The common arguments on here - that Motorcyclists are going to be sliced into pieces simply arent being seen in practice. Pulling these out will simply allow vehicles to hit the hazards we`re tring to protect them against.

As it stands (as of today) WRSB and Armco are similar in terms of casualty rates for riders - do you want these gone as well?

I`ll lump them together because the posts which cause the damage to motorcyclists are common to both barrier types.

People are still sliced , What about the car drivers and passenger decapitated by the last year.
I agree most of the damage is done by the post, but the wires guide you into them, acting as a slice at the same time, the post just finish of the job.
As for pulling them out All we ever asked for is them to be made Motorcycle safe, also safe for any road user that hits them for what ever reason, also we have asked for no more to be installed while a investigation into there safety is carried out, there are other forms of barrier that can be installed that have proven to be a better long term solution.

I`m not denying that people are killed in collisions with barriers - I stated earlier some recent NZ stats to that effect. Cars, trucks, motorcyclists all suffer in sudden decelerations.

Agreed, only problem is an unseated rider always hits a barrier post at 90 degrees even if he slides along the wires.

As an engineer, decisions affecting public safety have to be made, with limited resources, with varied and un-predictable users of the road network. Just like you choose to disregard my opinions - i`m free to disagree with the unnamed dutch engineer.

So squandering money on a cheap to install but expensive and short life barrier is cost effective.

As for the un-named Dutch engineer, at least his government has banned the use and installation of WRB's

while we have an un-named and presumably NZ qualified Road engineer, who seems to have a vested interest in installing WRBs, tell us that they are safe and we should not complain about them, maybe you should check out the 10 lawsuit going on in the USA from the Families of those that died because of WRB's, but hey that is not in NZ and here we can't sue LTNZ .

maybe the family who died because of no barrier will be asking why there was not a barrier constructed that would work out cheaper to maintain there by allow more barriers to be erected that are safer for every one including Motorcyclist.

[Mom]

As others have noted i`m certainly not employed by any barrier manufacturers...

Quoted for context

As for pulling them out All we ever asked for is them to be made Motorcycle safe, also safe for any road user that hits them for what ever reason, also we have asked for no more to be installed while a investigation into there safety is carried out, there are other forms of barrier that can be installed that have proven to be a better long term solution.

Let me post the wording of the petition for clarity once again;

We, the undersigned, are concerned about the safety of wire traffic barriers and their increasing presence on New Zealand roads and highways. We urge Transit New Zealand, Land Transport New Zealand and the Ministry of Transport to place a moratorium on the use of such barriers until a comprehensive review is undertaken into the effectiveness and safety of wire traffic barriers to all road users, particularly motorcyclists.

It is not rocket science. No more of these killer, dangerous barriers to be installed until Transit and the Government have taken the time to fully investigate, taking in to account the already well documented studies that have been done overseas about these things. Stop installing them!

The ones we already have? Research will confirm that they are not safe, they are "cost effective" in the short term at best. They can be improved and made safer, or pulled out and replaced or converted to something that is safer for all road users.

[moT]

For arguements sake i think this campaign is prety stupid. the cheesecutter barriers are the cheapest form of barrier per km then any other barrier and they do a good job preventing cars from crossing lanes. A motorcyclist has a high chance of dieing by hitting any barrier cheesecutter or not. I believe the reason for this campeign is because the form of death is quite graphic compared to other barriers so why should you discriminate against different kind of barriers they will both lead to the same result. There is no point spending more gov $$$ on barriers that are not needed.

[Hitcher]

There is no point spending more gov $$$ on barriers that are not needed.

Nice troll. Love your work.

[MSTRS:Me]

Tom seems to need more proof of the truth surrounding barriers...

[WelshWizard]

The EU has finally declared that the WRB'S are a health and safety issue, so they have started the ball rolling in Brussels, and it looks like 25 countries will have to declare them dangerous and remove them when I find the link again will post it.

only simple minds believe that hitting an anchor wire, a post , or the wires them selves is as safe as sliding along a concrete barrier, or for that matter a complying steel barrier, the designers specs call for all steel barriers to be from the top to the ground steel so the post are not exposed.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...w-1138376.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...060076190.html

[Katman]

Where have we asked for it's removal?

The EU has finally declared that the WRB'S are a health and safety issue, so they have started the ball rolling in Brussels, and it looks like 25 countries will have to declare them dangerous and remove them when I find the link again will post it.

This is an example of where people here get the impression that we are also calling for the barriers removal.

[Ocean1]

This is an example of where people here get the impression that we are also calling for the barriers removal.

Only them wot don't read proper.

Here's a better reason for people to believe we want them removed: I believe the fucking things are an abomination designed by an accountant and I want the fucking things gone. Plain enough?

I'd accept burying them safely in concrete.

About 1M high.

Slightly tapering towards the top.

[RiderInBlack]

OK right, Spring is here and Summer is on the way. Sooooo when are we doing the Next Cheesecutter Awareness Ride/s?

[MSTRS:Me]

This is an example of where people here get the impression that we are also calling for the barriers removal.

Retrofitting to make safer, or replacement with a 'decent' barrier is not removal. Thought we were clear at all times on that one.

I'd accept burying them safely in concrete.

About 1M high.

Slightly tapering towards the top.

and there is a forming machine that will do just that. In the resource thread there is a link to a film put out by Britain's Transit-equivalent that shows it in action.
Watch it here http://www.safermotorways.co.uk/feature31_video_003.htm

[avgas]

Yeah rip em out - replace em with an electric fence.
those suckers keep the cows out of the garden. I crash my motorbike into one once and it took me 10 mins of jolts to get it out.

[sunhuntin]

Yeah rip em out - replace em with an electric fence.
those suckers keep the cows out of the garden. I crash my motorbike into one once and it took me 10 mins of jolts to get it out.

dont give them any ideas!