Advice: Overcoming a fear of braking

[MotoGirl]

OK, enough is enough! I'm sick of being a pansy and want advice on how I can get over my fear of braking. I got scared of this after low siding my VTR at Taupo two years ago - all because I stayed on the brakes too long tipping into the corner at the end of the straight (old track). I was riding like a bat out of Hell at the time.

Before you give me any advice, I should tell you that I don't have any issues braking in a straight line or to avoid running into that car that's just pulled out in front of me. This is all in my head and I'm only scared of using my brakes as I approach a corner. I've done the RRRS course and was quite happy to have the chain chattering away, and I'll happily grab a handful of brake in a straight line.

Jeez, so how do I get from A to B you might ask? Simple. I use engine braking. I went round Manfield on Saturday and wasn't using any brakes on the track (yeah, go the novice group!). I just slammed it down a gear (or two) on my way into each corner. This was good for the cornering but not so good for speed! I love speed in a straight line.

I freak out if I go into a corner too fast and need to slow down for it. Obviously I'm referring to what's too fast for me. Time with my arse in the seat is helping with some of my confidence issues, but I know I can't ride around without brakes forever. Plus, there's a couple of people I eventually want to give the learn

[jrandom]

I like riding without brakes, too, just gears and throttle, but you're quite correct in saying that it's no way to get fast lap times.

I only do it on the road when nobody's watching

I heard some good advice recently for going faster, from an impeccable source.

"Brake later, accelerate sooner."

I personally have the opposite problem to yours - grabbing handfuls of brake right up to a corner doesn't bother me, but I'm still getting my head around cracking the throttle on through the corner and accelerating hard out of it without upsetting the suspension and giving myself the shits. I tend to end up rolling out of corners kicking myself and thinking "I could have got on the gas ages ago".

[White trash]

OK, enough is enough! I'm sick of being a pansy and want advice on how I can get over my fear of braking. I got scared of this after low siding my VTR at Taupo two years ago - all because I stayed on the brakes too long tipping into the corner at the end of the straight (old track). I was riding like a bat out of Hell at the time.

Before you give me any advice, I should tell you that I don't have any issues braking in a straight line or to avoid running into that car that's just pulled out in front of me. This is all in my head and I'm only scared of using my brakes as I approach a corner. I've done the RRRS course and was quite happy to have the chain chattering away, and I'll happily grab a handful of brake in a straight line.

Jeez, so how do I get from A to B you might ask? Simple. I use engine braking. I went round Manfield on Saturday and wasn't using any brakes on the track (yeah, go the novice group!). I just slammed it down a gear (or two) on my way into each corner. This was good for the cornering but not so good for speed! I love speed in a straight line.

I freak out if I go into a corner too fast and need to slow down for it. Obviously I'm referring to what's too fast for me. Time with my arse in the seat is helping with some of my confidence issues, but I know I can't ride around without brakes forever. Plus, there's a couple of people I eventually want to give the learn

You need to understand and believe one thing to get better at it.
You didn't crash because of the trail braking. It was most likely the underdamped and far too soft front suspension on the VTR that seeded your new fear.

[MotoGirl]

You need to understand and believe one thing to get better at it.
You didn't crash because of the trail braking. It was most likely the underdamped and far too soft front suspension on the VTR that seeded your new fear.

Cheers Jimmy, I get what you're saying.

I don't entirely want to blame the bike although I agree it wasn't setup for the way I was riding it. We'd never even set up the suspension for me - I didn't understand the benefits of modifying it

I know the RSV can handle anything I'll ever throw at it. I just need to find the paranoid switch and flick it off!

[White trash]

Yeah, I mean, it's always still the decision making of the pilot that causes the crash. The problem I found with the VTR is that the front suspension is not only bad, it lacks feel. Unlike the SV650 for example, which has pretty bad front forks but you can still sort of feel what the front's doing and therefore how hard to test it.

Umm, PM sent anyway.

[Weaver]

I haven't been riding for very long, and I find that when I'm going into a corner bit fast for me, I tend to brake heavily and I noticed just last week that I usally look at the bank I might crash into. So when this is happening I just look at the exit of the corner, lean into it a bit more and feed it the fat

[roadracingoldfart]

I haven't been riding for very long, and I find that when I'm going into a corner bit fast for me, I tend to brake heavily and I noticed just last week that I usally look at the bank I might crash into. So when this is happening I just look at the exit of the corner, lean into it a bit more and feed it the fat

Good call to that man .
target fixsation is what we call that and the bike will always go where you look.

I used to run a riding school in Welly and the thing i did with the paranoid was to get the front wheel on a metre square lump of plywood and get them to "slowly" ride foreward and keep the feet on the pegs.
If you feel the bike go out of balance just let the brake of and ride away.
It sounds dangerous but it gives you a feeling of what its like to have a front wheel lockup but also how easy it is to get out of it.... let the brake off.
If it does go wrong its very slow and not much damage will be done.
To anyone that wants to rubbish this theory ill ask them to try it first.
There are many physics rules to overcome to get a bike to corner but it is able to be done due to the suspension and dynamics of the bike,plus a few other things.
The best advice is to keep inside your comfort zone but gradually extend the zone as you feel the comfort level increase.

[puddytat]

Ive been practicing the slow in , fast out approach...trying to make sure I get my braking done in a straight line ,then off the picks, cracking the throttle & tipping in. Been finding Im starting to get in a bit deeper into the corners & if it starts to tighten on me Im not shitting myself...plus a little front brake will pull her round a bit more without me feelin like I'll lose the front end. Well, so far so good anyway !

[SVboy]

This is an interesting thread-keep up the good feedback and useful advise..

[jim.cox]

I personally have the opposite problem to yours - grabbing handfuls of brake right up to a corner doesn't bother me, but I'm still getting my head around cracking the throttle on through the corner and accelerating hard out of it without upsetting the suspension and giving myself the shits. I tend to end up rolling out of corners kicking myself and thinking "I could have got on the gas ages ago".

But you're supposed to feel the bike move around underneath you.

The suspension is not getting upset -merely its loading is changing and the tyres are proabably squirming a bit too

For your dis-ease, I would prescribe a good hard fang on a Ducati as being the best medicine. They LOVE driving out of corners :)

[kiwifruit]

Kick, punch, its all in your mind

[jrandom]

The suspension is not getting upset...

Yes it is, when I'm fiddling with the front brake and don't get around to cracking the throttle on before the apex. The jolt going from a shut throttle to 1/4 open is much more unsettling than winding 1/3 throttle on when it's already cracked open. The twitchy EFI on GSXRs doesn't help. Lazy burbly carburetion makes a sloppy throttle hand so much less problematic.

I have no issues with the back end squirming a little on the gas in corners; I quite like it, as a matter of fact.

Edit: Just to make it clear, my issue is not with winding the throttle on once I'm heading out of a corner; it's with setting the bike up to drive out of it smoothly.

[MotoGirl]

Kick, punch, its all in your mind

So you're suggesting someone kicks and punches it out of me? I'm open to all suggestions, but I'll try the others first...

[FROSTY:Me]

Hey MG-that corner in itself can be a total B@#@#@
As others have suggested go back to that incident and figure out what
Happened-
Did you for example hit the dip and bounce out-unloading the front end?

[F5 Dave]

Road-Racin-Gold-Fart, (sorry it just leads itself) erm how does locking up the front wheel in a straight line correspond to loosing it while leant over? While I've saved losing the front leaned over a few times racing & on the dirt (really in the dirt it is just throttle on & hope) there usually little chance of bringing it back once it has unweighted. But one has to live in hope. & yes I have spent a bit of time with plywood (or icecream container lids-wear out quicker but are totally frictionless) at Captain James T Kirks courses many yrs ago, that was always amusing.

I think the only course of action is to practise finishing the braking on the straight and having the bike settled before turning in. That can then be blended into progressively letting the brake go later.

But the key is how you let the brake go. A bike has to be stable before it can corner at the tyre's potential. If one hits the brake bottoming the (allegedly wimpy) forks then releases the brake by effectively letting go the front springs up unsettling the bike & making it feel like it is on the edge of traction as it bounces up & down. Thus making the rider think they were going in to fast & next time brake for longer. Sadly this means the braking is extended to a time when the tyre should be concentrating on cornering force & doesn't have any left for braking. Hence the fall.

Really engine braking isn't a magic brake, it still causes weight transfer onto the front.

If one practises letting go of the brake smoothly and then working up to the same rate that the bike can take it & remain settled big advances can be made. Truly talented riders seem to be able to do this in an incredibly condensed period and then flick the bike on it's side into tight corners while lesser mortals would throw it away if they approached such seemingly violent actions.